Russlands invasjon av Ukraina [Ny tråd, les førstepost]

[Dragavon]

Sitat

Poland ‘closer to military conflict than at any time since WW2’ as Nato allies weigh response to Russian drones
Donald Tusk says Poland dealing with a large-scale provocation after at least 19 violations of Polish airspace

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/10/poland-shoots-down-drones-over-its-territory-amid-russian-attack-on-ukraine-says-military

[torbjornen]

overhodet skrev (2 timer siden):

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115180631135047280

Lurer på hva som skjer nå.

Sannsynlegvis ingen ting.

[overhodet]

torbjornen skrev (9 minutter siden):

Sannsynlegvis ingen ting.

Typisk Taco Trump det ja dessverre.

[JK22]

Det var 19 registrerte inntrengninger ifølge de polske myndighetene, men det vist seg at det kan være noe flere, for minst 16 droner er funnet der disse gikk tom for brensel og falt - minst én hadde falt innenfor en militær base - ! - og det var minst 4 nedskutte droner, men det er funnet dronerester i minst seks til syv lokaliteter, og missilsrester etter en AMRAAM var også funnet. Samtidige droner er de såkalte "narredroner" av type Geran. En Geran er en lettkonstruert kopi av en Shahed med betydelige endringer, som har knapt noe lasteevne - som er ment å fungere som lokkemidler i møte med det ukrainske luftvernsforsvaret. 

[aklla]

"i give Russia 2 weeks notice to stop violating NATO`s airspace or there will be huge consequences.
Bigger then ever in the history of human kind. 1000% a million big"

Noe slikt kanskje?
Men trump gjør ingenting nei, mot putin er det ikke engang TACO, for det det er bare trusler om at det kommer trusler, før nye trusler om kommende trusler kommer..

Måtte polen ta igjen, en drone over grensen=ett bombet militært mål i russland.

putin kommer neppe til å gjøre annet enn å slutte(samt klage), vold er ett språk han forstår.

[xRun]

aklla skrev (23 minutter siden):

putin kommer neppe til å gjøre annet enn å slutte(samt klage), vold er ett språk han forstår.

Og så vil Trump ta æren for å ha stoppet sin 9. krig, og bli dypt forbauset over at han ikke fikk Nobels fredspris etter nå å ha stoppet 19 kriger, for alle forstår jo at ingen fortjener den mer etter å ha stoppet 29 kriger.

[Mr.M]

xRun skrev (3 timer siden):

det er overtydelig at Trump distanserer seg.

"here we go" kommentaren viser at han forholder seg til det som en utenforstående tilskuer.

Mulig han kommer med mer "moden" uttalelse/reaksjon senere, men det er isåfall ikke hans eget tankegods, men fra kretsen rundt.

[torbjornen]

19+ krenkingar av polsk luftrom, og ingen krenkingar av slovakisk eller ungarsk luftrom.

Sikkert berre tilfeldigheiter...

[jallajall]

Joa..

 

Endret 20 timer siden av jallajall

[xRun]

Russian propaganda tries to shift blame onto Ukraine for drones over Poland
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/09/10/7530136/
 

Russian PSYOPS? Many blame Ukraine, not Moscow, for drone incursions in Poland
https://tvpworld.com/88853445/russian-disinformation-campaign-suspected-as-drones-violate-polish-airspace

Sitat

A Moscow-backed ‘PSYOPS’ psychological operation was likely the reason for more online comments blaming Ukraine than Russia for a drone violation of Polish airspace by Russian machines, according to an analysis of Polish social media.

The report by Res Futura, a Polish NGO focused on information security, was published on Wednesday, hours after about 20 Russian drones violated Poland’s airspace.

“The attack by Russian drones on Polish territory was immediately exploited as a catalyst for an organized information-psychological campaign (PSYOPS),” the report said.

It added: “Analysis of content on Polish social media indicates a high saturation of repetitive narratives, characteristic of coordinated actions rather than solely spontaneous citizen reactions.”

En noe mer detaljert rapport om disinformasjon relatert til denne hendelsen:

Polish Government warns against latest Russian disinformation campaign
https://ieu-monitoring.com/editorial/polish-government-warns-against-latest-russian-disinformation-campaign/844470?utm_source=ieu-portal

Spoiler

Warsaw, 10 September 2025

Warning against disinformation related to the violation of Polish airspace by drones

An extraordinary meeting of the Joint Cybersecurity Operations Centre—bringing together representatives of all services involved in protecting cyberspace—was held today.

In connection with the violation of Polish airspace by drones, all services responsible for cybersecurity are operating at a heightened state of readiness. They are monitoring the situation, in particular the security of the functioning of critical infrastructure.

A disinformation campaign coordinated with the drones

Since the morning, increased disinformation activity by Russian and Belarusian services has also been identified. Its primary aim is to shift responsibility for the violation of Polish airspace onto Ukraine and to discredit the actions taken by the Polish military and the services responsible for security.

• Everyone should exercise particular caution regarding information appearing in the public sphere—especially on social media.

• Sources of information must be verified each time, and materials from unverified sources should not be shared.

• Polish security services are continuously providing verified and confirmed information to the public.

Main disinformation narratives identified by NASK’s Disinformation Analysis Centre

1. The state is not warning citizens about the threat – it is suggested that the authorities are not warning citizens about the threat arising from the violation of Polish airspace. Selected mentions claim that the government and media are “asleep” and did not provide information for many hours.

2. Ukrainians are dragging Poland into the war (a Ukrainian provocation) – messages suggest that Ukraine is responsible for the violation of Polish airspace by drones. Sending the drones toward Poland is portrayed as a way to draw our country into war with Russia. Disinformation actors focus on the alleged deliberate failure of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to shoot down the objects while they were still over Ukrainian airspace.

3. The Polish military is not prepared to defend the country – messages suggest that the Polish Armed Forces are not prepared to defend the country. Some posts also claim that only two drones were shot down, which is presented as a sign of state weakness.

4. The government wants to shift responsibility for national defence onto NATO – messages refer to the possible triggering of NATO Article 4. These reports are used by disinformation actors to craft a narrative about shifting responsibility for national defence onto the North Atlantic Alliance.

5. Russia is not responsible for the attack because it has no interest in it – it is suggested that Russia is not responsible for the violation of Polish airspace because launching drones toward Poland would bring the country no benefits.

6. Destroying drones by the Polish Armed Forces weakens defence capabilities – it is suggested that destroying drones by Polish military aviation will lead to shortages of armaments and thus weaken the country’s defence capabilities.

7. Poland is at war with Russia – posts suggest that the incursion of Russian drones into Polish airspace means Poland is at war with Russia. Such claims can cause public panic.

8. Ukrainians are taking revenge on Poles for the statement by Karol Nawrocki that Poland will not send troops to the war zone – Ukrainians allegedly launched drones toward Poland as revenge for a statement by President Karol Nawrocki that Poland rules out sending troops to Ukraine.

Russian and Belarusian sources

• Ukrainians are dragging Poland into the war (a Ukrainian provocation) – within these activities, messages portray Ukraine as the side urging Poland to join the war. Kyiv is also indicated as responsible for directing drones toward Poland.

• Belarusians warned Poland about the attack – sources operating on Telegram (known for spreading Russian disinformation) promoted the Belarusian message that the Belarusian Armed Forces allegedly provided Poland with information about the operation of unmanned aerial vehicles in Ukrainian airspace. The aim is to present Belarus as a party “entirely unrelated” to the escalation of tensions. This may be an example of Minsk’s likely individual propaganda activity, without coordination of this information line with Moscow.

• Repeat of Przewodów—soon it will again turn out to be ‘an attack from Ukraine’ – in the context of the drones, pro-Russian circles known for disinformation aligned with the Kremlin’s goals became active in Poland’s infosphere. A substantial part of their attention has been devoted to framing the attack as a “repeat of Przewodów.” According to this narrative, the Polish government is baselessly accusing Russia, whereas “in reality” Kyiv is responsible.

• Relativising – actors known for spreading Russian disinformation promote messages that the drone attack is merely “theatre” staged by Warsaw in cooperation with Kyiv. The aim is to undermine the Polish authorities’ communications about the event and Russia’s likely responsibility.

• Denying that the attack occurred – one narrative denies that the attack took place. Polish-language Russian sources cite earlier Polish communications about the presence of Russian drones that were allegedly not confirmed by photographs. In this way, Poland is positioned as provoking tensions based on false communications.

• Potential damage is the result of Polish or Ukrainian air defence – Russian sources on Telegram promote the claim that the potential effects of shooting down drones are the result of Polish or Ukrainian air defence actions. Posts include videos recorded in Poland where aircraft sounds can be heard—presented as proof of a critical security situation and the presence of UAVs over Polish cities.

• Poland is defenceless against Russian drones—hysteria, disgrace and the illusion of security – posts convey a consistent message that Poland supposedly completely failed during the drone incident—allowing not only the incursion but a flight of dozens of kilometres into the country as far as the Zamość region. Authors suggest the drones could have hit strategic targets such as Rzeszów—a key hub for arms deliveries to Ukraine. At the same time, the entire situation is presented as “hysteria” stirred up by Poland, with no real threat, and the main cause of the commotion is said to be the alleged ineptitude of Polish air defence in reacting to “slow-flying” targets. The narrative seeks to ridicule and discredit Poland’s defence capabilities, undermining its role as a credible NATO partner.

• Poland escalates the drone incident to support the ‘war party’ and torpedo a Trump–Putin deal – posts portray the violation of Polish airspace by drones as a pretext used by Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Western forces to intensify confrontation with Russia. It is suggested this is not the first such case, but this time Warsaw and NATO’s reaction is unnaturally harsh—unlike earlier incidents explained as accidental incursions. The narrative focuses on alleged political manoeuvring: Prime Minister Tusk is said to exploit the Russian threat in domestic politics against President Nawrocki, who—according to the author—is sceptical about Ukraine. Simultaneously, the event is cast as part of a larger geopolitical game in which the Western “war party” seeks to force Donald Trump to break an alleged deal with Vladimir Putin reached during a supposed meeting in Alaska. The aim of escalating the message is to torpedo Putin’s “peace plan,” allegedly involving limited territorial demands and forcing the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from Donbas—something Trump is claimed to have already accepted. In this framing, it is not Russia but Ukraine and the West who are responsible for continuing the war.

• NATO hides weakness and division—Russian drones entered Poland deliberately, but ‘it was not an attack’ – analysed posts advance a consistent narrative that Russian drones deliberately violated Polish airspace and that NATO, despite detecting the threat with radar systems, including “Patriot” batteries, did not respond effectively and did not recognise the incident as an attack. It is emphasised that between six and ten Russian drones entered Polish airspace, and Polish F-16s, Dutch F-35s, Italian reconnaissance aircraft and tankers were sent to intercept them—allegedly the first real action by NATO fighters over Poland. Even so, according to cited “Reuters sources,” the Alliance did not treat the event as an act of aggression, portrayed as Western helplessness and a lack of determination to respond to Russian provocations. The overall aim is to undermine trust in NATO, depict it as internally divided and passive, and bolster the image of Russia as able to test boundaries without consequences.

• Drones over Poland are media manipulation and a false war alarm – posts carry a distinctly anti-system, anti-Western and pro-Russian narrative that questions the authenticity of reports about Russian drones violating Polish airspace. The author portrays the incident as a carefully planned psychological operation intended to frighten society and cover other topics—such as vaccine criticism, WHO activities, or the Supreme Audit Office (NIK) report on COVID-related abuses. It is claimed that the alerts are a “narrative script” designed to drag Poles into another war and subject them to Western interests. The government is accused of taking decisions not in Poland but in Washington and Tel Aviv, and the real threat is said to be not Russia but one’s own state, media and corporations. The post denies the sense of Poland’s defence, suggesting that war is merely a tool for controlling emotions and society, with the drone incident being another season of a media “series” after the “pandemic” and the war in Ukraine. The overall message fits typical disinformation propaganda that attacks state and allied institutions, constructs an elite conspiracy, and blurs Russia’s responsibility by portraying it as an innocent actor.

Narratives noted in the Russian-language infosphere

• Messages in Russia’s mainstream media – Russian media reported that Prime Minister Donald Tusk notified the NATO Secretary General about the violation of Polish airspace and the downing of several drones. Attention was drawn to the reaction of the Polish authorities, including the closure of four airports and the scrambling of fighters. At the same time, it was emphasised that no evidence of the drones’ Russian origin had been presented, even though D. Tusk supposedly suggested this possibility. The media also recalled the Przewodów case from 2022, where Poland likewise accused Russia, but the allegations were ultimately not confirmed. The Russian ambassador in Warsaw was quoted as saying that Poland “has never presented any evidence” of violations by Moscow.

• Mass drone attack – the Russian message casts Poland as a besieged target of “strike drones,” aiming to create an atmosphere of chaos and panic. This masks a possible provocation and underscores the alleged inability of the Polish authorities to maintain control over airspace.

• NATO is powerless – the message presents “Geran-2” drones as a real threat, recreating an image of NATO weakness that reacts only belatedly by sending combat and reconnaissance aircraft. This reinforces rhetoric about Russian strength and Western indifference.

• Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry demands that the West shoot down drones over its territory – posts portray Kyiv as pressing the West to assume responsibility for defending Ukrainian skies. The narrative seeks to undermine Ukraine’s defensive capabilities and depict it as a state constantly demanding help from partners. It is also suggested that Ukraine is trying to draw NATO into direct confrontation with Russia. The lack of unequivocal confirmation from Poland that the drones were Russian is highlighted to sow doubts about Kyiv’s version and to depict the West as reluctant to escalate.

• D. Tusk announces violations of Polish airspace – the Russian side portrays Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s statement on the current situation as evidence of his weakness—casting him as melodramatic and prone to hysteria. The narrative suggests that Poland’s and NATO’s reaction is exaggerated, and that reports of Russian drones amount to a repeat of a “movie script about World War III.” The aim is to ridicule Western and Polish reactions and present them as nervous and inadequate.

• Drones over Poland—NATO reacts, but without attribution – the message stresses that despite serious reactions by the Polish military and allies (fighter launches, airport closures), there has been no official statement about who owned the drones. The reaction of the US and CNN is also highlighted, but with the suggestion that the information is ambiguous. The aim is to create the impression that the West acts impulsively and without real grounds, undermining its credibility.

• The Prime Minister avoids confirming the drones’ origin – the message highlights the absence of unequivocal confirmation by Donald Tusk that the downed drones were Russian. This is meant to build a narrative that the West is deliberately avoiding responsibility for escalation and is trying to balance between action and the appearance of restraint.

• The Polish army is not coping with drones, NATO is silent – the message mocks Poland’s air defence, suggesting it cannot respond effectively to airspace violations. It also underscores NATO’s alleged passivity and supposed ignorance of the problem. The aim is to undermine Poland’s defence capabilities and portray the Alliance as ineffective and absent at a moment of crisis.

• The incident as a Western provocation against Russia and Trump – the message portrays the violation of Polish airspace as part of a broader Western political game aimed at heightening tensions with Russia and pitting the Kremlin against Donald Trump. Poland is cast merely as a tool in this game. Tusk is accused of haste and lack of prudence. The narrative undermines Poland’s credibility and depicts it as a pawn in a global conflict.

• The drones are a provocation by Kyiv and Warsaw – the message downplays the incident, suggesting that Russian drones were not heading toward Poland. There are ironic references to “UFOs” and insinuations that the incident was engineered by the “beneficiaries of war”—Ukraine and Poland. The goal is to shift responsibility onto the West and whitewash Russia’s actions.

• Escalation or provocation? Poland under information fire – the message questions the authenticity of reports about Russian drones over Poland, suggesting the incident may have been a deliberate provocation in the context of Poland’s internal disputes or an attempt to justify further support for the arms lobby. The author also suggests possible manipulation of drone debris or origin, undermining official positions and calling for caution in assessing the situation.

• Poland on alert—another instalment of the information war – the message reports the reaction of the Polish authorities to the airspace violation by drones but emphasises ambiguity about their origin. It is noted that Prime Minister D. Tusk did not point to Russia as the culprit, which is meant to suggest a possible false alarm or disinformation. Earlier incidents involving a Ukrainian missile are recalled as an example of misleading information. The aim is to undermine Poland’s credibility and depict the West as overreacting.

• Provocation and Western influence – the message suggests that the attack on Poland may have been carried out by Ukrainian forces in coordination with the US and the UK. It claims the incident was deliberately engineered to blame Russia and to put political pressure on Donald Trump. It is stated that “Geran-2” drones could have been launched by the Ukrainian side as part of a Western political game. A US congressman, Joe Wilson, is cited as calling the event an “act of war,” even though Poland has not officially confirmed the drones’ origin.

• Poland allegedly under attack—hysteria, provocation, pretext – a message broadcast by the SolovievLive channel builds a narrative that Poland is reacting hysterically to an “alleged” drone attack, strengthening the message of artificially induced panic and escalation. Prime Minister Donald Tusk is said to be “announcing an operation” while, as the post suggests, not providing specific information. The overall picture portrays Poland as reacting nervously, alerting NATO, closing airports and spreading a sense of danger despite a lack of confirmed data about “Russian” drones. Previous “false” accusations against Russia are also recalled, fitting the broader Kremlin line: the West provokes, lies and escalates, while Russia remains passive and slandered.

E-translated by ChatGPT, prompted by Insight EU. This English translation is provided for informational purposes only. In the event of any discrepancies or legal interpretations, the original Polish version shall prevail and is the only legally binding text.

Source: Government of Poland – Ministry of Digital Affairs

Artikkelen inkludert i spoiler pr. 05:15, 11. sep. 2025

[Thor.]

Edit: Feil tråd

Endret 15 timer siden av Thor.

[Mr.Narvik]

[Mbappe09]

Hva betyr dette sånn i praksis?
 

 

[Mbappe09]

Jeg tror dessverre russerne tenker at Trump ikke kommer til å involvere seg i beskyttelse av NATO-land- og jeg mistenker de dessverre har rett. Trump kommer mest sannsynlig ikke til å involvere seg. Fabrikkene må opp og produksjon av våpen må skje umiddelbart 24/7. 

[sedsberg]

35 minutes ago, Mbappe09 said:

Hva betyr dette sånn i praksis?

At det ikke har noe å si siden Doиald Tяump & Co kommer til å overstyre?

[Simen1]

Youtubekanalen 1420 lever videre og intervjuer folk på gata i Moskva og på landsbygda. Jeg synes jeg sporer en økende frustrasjon blant folk som intervjues. Det har hele tiden vært todelt, noen er rett ut Putinister mens andre veier sine ord nøye eller er rett ut kritiske til Putin, systemet og den russiske mentaliteten. Et eksempel:

Det skinner litt igjennom at youtuberen selv er kritisk pga utvalget av spørsmål. F.eks

- Hvor mye sparepenger har du?

- Hvilket land ville du migrert til?

- Hva synes du om at vi er alliert med Iran og Nord-Korea?

- Hva dør så mange folk for i krigen?

- Hvilke andre land bør vi "frigjøre og avnazifisere"?

Enten vil ikke folk prate fordi det er for vanskelig eller så klarer de nesten ikke å stoppe.

[Simen1]

Den russisk ortodokse kirka, krigsveteraner og nasjonalister samlet en prosesjon på hele 120 000 mennesker i Moskva søndag 7. september. Kreml og FSB er paraonide og lurte på om disse kunne utgjøre en trussel mot regimet. En av utfordringene skal ha vært begrenset antall spesialstyrker til å stå i mot eventuelle organiserte opptøyer. Det andre er mer politisk. Hva skjer med disse sterke organisasjonenes holdning til regimet dersom regimet behandler de brutalt med spesialstyrker..

Antagelig er det mer paranoia enn noe annet. Men nivået av paranoia hos Kreml og FSB er svært interessant i seg selv. Dette er et sjeldent innblikk som noe blir innbitt dysset ned i putinkontrollerte media.

[torbjornen]

jallajall skrev (8 timer siden):

Joa..

 

Er det i stor grad russiske botar som ligg bak desse tala, eller er folk sjølv i Polen så hjernevaska som dette gjev inntrykk av? Eg blir litt oppgitt når folk i dei landa som historisk sett har vore mest underkua av Russland/Sovjetunionen ikkje er meir opplyste.

[Simen1]

torbjornen skrev (3 minutter siden):

Er det i stor grad russiske botar som ligg bak desse tala, eller er folk sjølv i Polen så hjernevaska som dette gjev inntrykk av? Eg blir litt oppgitt når folk i dei landa som historisk sett har vore mest underkua av Russland/Sovjetunionen ikkje er meir opplyste.

Det polske folk er delt. Noe både det siste valgresultatet viste og noe man så tidligere i krigen blant annet fra Polske bønder sør-øst, sterkt i mot støtten til Ukrtaina. Men hvor delingen går er mer usikkert. Det er i hvert fall en mye større pro-russisk andel enn i Norge (FOR fikk 0,29% av stemmene her. 9455 totalt).

 

[xRun]

torbjornen skrev (9 minutter siden):

Er det i stor grad russiske botar som ligg bak desse tala, eller er folk sjølv i Polen

Det er en kombinasjon. Kreml har trukket i mange tråder i mange år for å spre disinformasjon i den hensikt å forvirre og så tvil og  splittelse og gjøre folk oppgitt og resignert, for å redusere deres samhold og evne til å respondere på en samlet måte. Blir en oppgitt så har Kreml oppnådd et av sine mål, en av mange måter de kan redusere folks vilje til å følge med. Disinformasjon og påvirkning er en del av Kremls strategi både overfor egen befolkning og andre land for å rydde motstand av veien.

En noe detaljert rapport om disinformasjon relatert til denne hendelsen:

Polish Government warns against latest Russian disinformation campaign
https://ieu-monitoring.com/editorial/polish-government-warns-against-latest-russian-disinformation-campaign/844470?utm_source=ieu-portal