Nordmann dømt til 7,5 års fengsel i USA for å ha kjørt feil ...

[jjkoggan]

The "norwegian" stereotype of the US is more in line with the "evil capitalism" exploiting workers plus rampant gun violence.

There are many other variants , dumme, feite, religiøse....

 

Strangely as it might seem to you, Micheal Moore is pretty much smack in the center of Norwegian Politics.

After 20 years of reading norwegian media every day, think i know where the political center is in Norway. Michael Moore so accurately mimics european anti-american social democratic sentiment he probably could become a quite successful european politician.

[Aiven]

When I came to your country I had little idea what to expect and let those around me fill in the blanks. This led to a much richer experience.

 

This incident reveals the divide between the way average americans and Norwegians look at crime and punishment, but only superficially and doesn't explore the more important why. Perhaps it is because cultural relativism only applies towards the weak and innocent, not towards the strong and powerful, at least in the left-leaning mind. Bad behavior can be excused by the left as long as the miscreants are considered weak, one must only try to understand cultural context. Deep cultural understanding to reveal motivations and context of the powerful are usually not closely examined, but condemned and caricaturized without nuance.

 

In this case we have the caricatures of many American stereotypes, corrupt xenophobic police/sheriff department, ignorant overzealous mobs ready to lynch a foreigner and a court system with medieval style punishment ready to throw away the key. All that is missing is the OK corral and Hollywood!

 

One thing that may go unnoticed by Norwegians is the amount of left leaning American media that takes the European side in this case. Much of the critique of American society is discovered and fueled by American media and rabidly consumed by European media. It is easy to forget that Michael Moore is an American product.

 

 

Well, first and foremost I think we have to consider that Americans are different - and towns are different. The fact that the story fits well with some stereotypes, does not prove that it is made up. All we can do here is using our gut feeling on the case. Mine says that it stinks.

 

There are many other variants , dumme, feite, religiøse....

 

 

After 20 years of reading norwegian media every day, think i know where the political center is in Norway. Michael Moore so accurately mimics european anti-american social democratic sentiment he probably could become a quite successful european politician.

 

Sorry that we don't cheer while your country bends us over and buttrapes us. It's like a rapist who accuse the victim of racism towards him.

Endret 14. januar 2014 av Aiven

[Skatteflyktning]

 

Sorry that we don't cheer while your country bends us over and buttrapes us. It's like a rapist who accuse the victim of racism towards him.

 

Most vassal states do harbour some ill feelings towards the empire, much the same as slaves towards their master.

 

 

A vassal state is any state that is subordinate to another. The vassal in these cases is the ruler, rather than the state itself. Being a vassal most commonly implies providing military assistance to the dominant state when requested to do so; it sometimes implies paying tribute, but a state which does so is better described as a tributary state. In simpler terms the vassal state would have to provide military power to the dominant state. Today, more common terms are puppet state, protectorate or associated state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_state

[kyrsjo]

Vakter kan være en løsning, men ikke hvis han mener overfylte fengsler er problemet.

Og eller vil hjelpe samfunnet han lever i, ved å tilby sånt...

 

Mannen vil ha disse som står i soningskø og som begår forbrytelser i fengsel.

Eller så vil hele nabolaget som sliter med disse kriminelle det, og de har gått sammen om å spleise på et fengsel.

 

Hvorfor må det være en mann som vil ha disse i soningskø i fengsel? Hvem finansierer de andre fengslene, rettsvesenet, politiet etc.? Hvem bestemmer hvilken type fengsel som skal bygges - fangehull, rehabilitering, eller noe i mellom?

 

Og igjen, fengsel er nyttig om man har et samfunn som *inneholder* uro-elementer. I et nabolag, som er ditt eksempel, så er det lettere med vakter + utkasting&utestengelse av uro-elementer.

 

 

The "norwegian" stereotype of the US is more in line with the "evil capitalism" exploiting workers plus rampant gun violence.

 

Strangely as it might seem to you, Micheal Moore is pretty much smack in the center of Norwegian Politics.

 

Michael more may be somewhat close to the center for some opinions, but he doesn't really have the methods of a centrist politician.

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Hvorfor må det være en mann som vil ha disse i soningskø i fengsel?

Kun et eksempel.

Det er aldri bare en mann, men stort sett alle ønsker et trygt samfunn..

 

Hvem finansierer de andre fengslene, rettsvesenet, politiet etc.?

Befolkningen.

 

Hvem bestemmer hvilken type fengsel som skal bygges - fangehull, rehabilitering, eller noe i mellom?

Befolkningen. Staten.

 

Og igjen, fengsel er nyttig om man har et samfunn som *inneholder* uro-elementer. I et nabolag, som er ditt eksempel, så er det lettere med vakter + utkasting&utestengelse av uro-elementer.

 

Michael more may be somewhat close to the center for some opinions, but he doesn't really have the methods of a centrist politician.

Har ikke sagt noe i mot eller om dette.

De som initierer tvang mot andre (bruker vold, svindler, osv) må settes i fengsel, eller få en bot.(...)

Endret 14. januar 2014 av turbonello

[kyrsjo]

*SNIP*

Hvem finansierer de andre fengslene, rettsvesenet, politiet etc.?

Befolkningen.

 

Hvem bestemmer hvilken type fengsel som skal bygges - fangehull, rehabilitering, eller noe i mellom?

Befolkningen. Staten.

 

(en annen quote fra meg. VOLDSOMT VANSKELIG DET VAR BLITT MED QUOTE-I-QUOTE PA DISKUSJON.NO DA?!?)

 

Har ikke sagt noe i mot eller om dette.

De som initierer tvang mot andre (bruker vold, svindler, osv) må settes i fengsel, eller få en bot.(...)

 

Så befolkningen/staten finansierer en haug med ting - hvordan betaler befolkningen for dette? Hvem bestemmer hvor mye befolkningen skal betale for dette? Er det greit at staten bestemmer hva slags fengsel denne hypotetiske rike mannen skal betale for? Fangehull er sannsyneligvis mye billigere en rehabilitering... Og hvem betaler for driften?

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Så befolkningen/staten finansierer en haug med ting - hvordan betaler befolkningen for dette?

Gjennom skatten, i et liberalistisk samfunn.

Gjennom medlemskap i en organisasjon som tilbyr sikkerhetstjenester i et anarki.

 

Hvem bestemmer hvor mye befolkningen skal betale for dette?

Folket bestemmer hvor mye de er villige til å betale i et anarkistisk samfunn. I en liberalistisk rettsstat, så så vil staten disponere skattepengene til slike formål.

 

Er det greit at staten bestemmer hva slags fengsel denne hypotetiske rike mannen skal betale for? Fangehull er sannsyneligvis mye billigere en rehabilitering... Og hvem betaler for driften?

I en liberalistisk rettsstat, vil det ikke være behov for at private supplerer det offentlige med fengsler. De har jo bare tre oppgaver, og de vil da selvsagt ha mer enn nok midler til å ivareta og prioritere disse på en svært god måte.

 

I et anarki, så vet jeg ikke. Sannsynligvis så vil ikke folk betale sikkerhetsselskaper som misshandler fanger osv. De vil betale det det koster for å ha en god rettsikkerhet, samt behandler fangene helt greit.

[Aiven]

 

 

Most vassal states do harbour some ill feelings towards the empire, much the same as slaves towards their master.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_state

Vet godt hva en vasallstat er. Kanskje vi er enige om noe, tross alt.

[Skatteflyktning]

Vet godt hva en vasallstat er. Kanskje vi er enige om noe, tross alt.

Hyggelig

[jjkoggan]

Well, first and foremost I think we have to consider that Americans are different - and towns are different. The fact that the story fits well with some stereotypes, does not prove that it is made up. All we can do here is using our gut feeling on the case. Mine says that it stinks.

 

It is not a made up story, but we were not witnesses to the incident, nor to the court proceedings. When we sit from afar and have not been taught to avoid stereotyping of certain cultures, we can more readily accept the often less accurate versions of reality since we are more likely to accept surface caricatures. In depth more nuanced but usually more accurate versions are often not even considered since we are conditioned to accept the stereotypes

 

 

Sorry that we don't cheer while your country bends us over and buttrapes us. It's like a rapist who accuse the victim of racism towards him.

Studying the rapist more carefully and in depth might help you avoid rape altogether. Demonization and over generalizing only leads to more trouble

 

Anti-Americanism is not about being critical of what America DOES, it is about being critical of what America IS

 

I personally agree that at the very least the punishment was harsh in this case, but I doubt xenophobia played a role in it. Since I understand the history of crime and punishment in the usa and the cultural context I may not condemn it as loudly. At the same time, having lived in Norway and having developed some insight into the norwegian view on crime and punishment, I understand why many are upset,

[Aiven]

It is not a made up story, but we were not witnesses to the incident, nor to the court proceedings. When we sit from afar and have not been taught to avoid stereotyping of certain cultures, we can more readily accept the often less accurate versions of reality since we are more likely to accept surface caricatures. In depth more nuanced but usually more accurate versions are often not even considered since we are conditioned to accept the stereotypes

 

 

 

Studying the rapist more carefully and in depth might help you avoid rape altogether. Demonization and over generalizing only leads to more trouble

 

Anti-Americanism is not about being critical of what America DOES, it is about being critical of what America IS

 

I personally agree that at the very least the punishment was harsh in this case, but I doubt xenophobia played a role in it. Since I understand the history of crime and punishment in the usa and the cultural context I may not condemn it as loudly. At the same time, having lived in Norway and having developed some insight into the norwegian view on crime and punishment, I understand why many are upset,

Fair comment. Frankly I think that what America does is a consequence of what it is. I'm all for daily life separating person from action, as in a person did a dumb thing instead of saying a person is dumb - this is very constructive. The problem with using that technique on America is that it would mean expecting better behaviour in the future if good criticism is put forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not that optimistic of the current regime.

[jjkoggan]

Fair comment. Frankly I think that what America does is a consequence of what it is. I'm all for daily life separating person from action, as in a person did a dumb thing instead of saying a person is dumb - this is very constructive. The problem with using that technique on America is that it would mean expecting better behaviour in the future if good criticism is put forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not that optimistic of the current regime.

If you reject who we are, there is no point in changing our behaviour since who we are doesn't change. You have admitted classic anti-Americanism

[Skatteflyktning]

 

I'm not that optimistic of the current regime.

The regime there is not much different from the regime in Norway, and a convergence is undoubtedly happening.

 

Not that I am that optimistic about either regime.

 

If you reject who we are, there is no point in changing our behaviour since who we are doesn't change. You have admitted classic anti-Americanism

Who you are change all the time. Almost 250 years ago you became the beacon of freedom but it has continually gone downhill from there, and after a long flickering, the light seems to have gone out after 9/11. Endret 15. januar 2014 av Skatteflyktning

[Aiven]

If you reject who we are, there is no point in changing our behaviour since who we are doesn't change. You have admitted classic anti-Americanism

I think you have admitted classic ignorance.

[jjkoggan]

I think you have admitted classic ignorance.

Who we are is not a function of behaviour, it is a function of our circumstances and history You cannot change your history or environment , you can only change what you do about it. We cannot change the fact that everything we do affects the world, we can only change what we do with that power.

[HuGo_]

Jeg stemmer for uskyldig dømt !

[Kron]

Jeg stemmer for uskyldig dømt !

 

hobbyjuryen er i gang skjønner jeg.

Endret 31. juli 2014 av Kron

[HuGo_]

 

Jeg stemmer for uskyldig dømt !

 

hobbyjuryen er i gang skjønner jeg.

 

o yeah

[Jaybug]

http://www.edvensonconsulting.com/apps/blog/entries/show/14428289-john-kristoffer-larsgard-part-1

 

Vanskelig å lese denne oppsummeringen av saken og ikke komme til beslutning at dette er justismord.

 

Likte spesielt hvordan et vitne hevdet han sa "I will kill you" mens et annet vitne hørte "I will sneak through"

 

Han fortjener bot og suspendert førerkort. 7 år er uhørt.

[HuGo_]

http://www.edvensonconsulting.com/apps/blog/entries/show/14428289-john-kristoffer-larsgard-part-1

 

Vanskelig å lese denne oppsummeringen av saken og ikke komme til beslutning at dette er justismord.

 

Likte spesielt hvordan et vitne hevdet han sa "I will kill you" mens et annet vitne hørte "I will sneak through"

 

Han fortjener bot og suspendert førerkort. 7 år er uhørt.

Enig !