Den store paladin tråden

[Lycantrophe]

Herregud, Bear^, hør på Cosha. 15% movement speed -gratis- er noe de fleste andre tanks kan drømme om. Det er en gavepakke. Og jo, den er veldig bra for tanks.

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Vennligst diskuter Lycan og ikke dra diskusjon.no's gamle metodikker inn her.

 

Som jeg sa syness jeg ikke det er verd å bruke så mange poeng i retribution treet når du skal tanke da det er andre ting som er bedre å ta med seg, som seal of the pure er i mine øyne.

 

Som det ble sagt dog lengere bak:

(...)Les denne, og lag din egen tank build imo, er ingen ''ultimate choices'' da mye er situasjonsavhengig.

 

Så vennligst diskuter, ikke konkluder og vær åpen for at der er andre synspunkter på en sak.

[Kuldesjokk]

Ofra selv litt stam for å få tuskarr på tankeskoa mine, hadde glatt tatt ei gavepakke som PoJ, er liksom alltid kos med runspeed, for ikke å snakke om hvor lett "kiting" av anub ble

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Smak og behag, tar 10 points i retri treet for å få PoJ og det synes jeg ikke er verd det. Men selvfølgelig en smakssak

[Kuldesjokk]

Vil heller si 4 ekstra.

 

5% parry tar man uansett.

Judgements gir 3% crit, finfin buff å ta med seg, ikke alltid mindre skade taken er veien til suksess, 3% crit til alle som slår på en mob blir litt skade i løpet av en kamp som igjen vil korte ned kampen.

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Sant nok, du har 9 poeng du bruker, men ser ikke noe poeng i å legge 3 ekstra poeng igjen i retritreet for å fylle ut PoJ. Synes hammer of justice er mye bedre, spesielt på trashmobs i f.eks Nexus som silencer noe så innmari. Selv med arcane torrent kommer hammer of justice godt med i de kampene hvor du er mot magic useres.

 

Synes ikke det er verd å bruke noen poeng på improved blessing of might heller, det er ikke meningen man skal være en buffbot, man har blessing of might, det får være nok.

 

Seals of the pure øker damage done med judgements samt damagen man gjør med den sealen man har aktive. Selv om man ikke har noe problemer med å holde threat oppe nå så er det like fult verd å ha i mine øyne.

[faldmo]

Som det ble sagt dog lengere bak:

(...)Les denne, og lag din egen tank build imo, er ingen ''ultimate choices'' da mye er situasjonsavhengig.

 

Sannhet med modifikasjoner, er ett par builds (inkludert det jeg linket) som annses som det mest normale for raiding.

Klart man kan begynne å specce så situasjonsavhengig at man respeccer for visse fights, men den jeg linket er en av de beste (om ikke den beste) cookiecutter speccen atm

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Såfremst strides da de lærde, på WoWwiki hvor den builden jeg nevner er bygget opp, sies dette:

 

Comment: This really is THE tanking spec right now. I feel it's important to stress that BoK is something that retri or holy should get. With holy being as popular as it is now, this souldn't be a problem. I've also seen tanks go for Pursuit of Justice, due to many boss encouters requiring alot of movements, but a skilled tanker shouldn't need this, the points are better spent otherwise.

[faldmo]

"but a skilled tanker shouldn't need this, the points are better spent otherwise."

 

Hva fan? Så en god tank burde kunne få +movement speed uten den?(eller enchant) Bare den siste linjen der sier jo litt om han som har skrevet det, jada wowwiki er gode på lore/info/guides men det er sansynligvis få av de som skriver de som faktisk raider highend og har noe veldig peiling

 

Jeg vet ikke om wowwiki er som vanlig wiki (at alle kan editere) men om det er det så sier jo det enda mer

 

 

 

EDIT: skal vi først quote fra steder så kan jeg jo quote fra EJ som sier det samme som meg (vil også anse EJ som en smule mer seriøst for dette en Wowwiki)

 

Seals of the Pure: Seal damage isn't really large enough to make this talent worth getting on its own, but if you're putting some points into Holy for other reasons (off-healing, for example) then this is a useful place to put them to unlock the deeper tiers.

Endret 7. februar 2009 av Cosha

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Ser ikke noe overdimensjonert grunn til at man skal bruke 3 ekstra poeng i retri treet for å få PoJ, 15% movementspeed er sikkert fint og raskt det men jeg ser ikke noe reell grunn til å kaste bort 3 poeng på dette, du kaster bort mer enn du oppnår.

 

E1:

 

Er forøvrig ingen som har rett eller feil i denne sammenhengen, it's all a matter of perspective.

Endret 7. februar 2009 av bear^

[Tørriss]

Skal ikke blande meg opp i tank spec diskusjonen deres, men ville bare si at jeg tar EJ langt mer seriøst enn jeg tar wikien. Wikien er rett og slett utdatert på mange områder, pluss at EJ gjør dette 'for a living'.

[PSV]

Personlig så syns jeg (når jeg raidet aktivt anyways) at Pursuit of Justice virket litt bortkastet (spesielt mtp. at man må bruke fire talent points på ubrukelige ting gitt 5/5 deflection, 1/2 judgement for å få tak i det) når man fikk alle DKs springende rundt med Unholy Aura. Dette tror jeg dog ikke er tilfelle så for min del vil jeg se det an i det jeg dinger 80 hvorvidt jeg vil inkludere denne i talentbuilden min eller ikke. Det er ingen tvil om at Pursuit of Justice er gull verdt iallefall.

 

Kan vel også legge til at, som med Onkel, er jeg litt kritisk til Wowwiki og informasjonen som er publisert der. (Greit med generell informasjon om ting, men personlige meninger som ''This really is THE tanking spec right now.'' syns jeg ikke har noe der å gjøre..) Forholder meg til den informasjonen som er gitt på ''maintankadin'' siden den siden vel er på høyde med ElitistJerks når det gjelder Prot-paladins.

Endret 8. februar 2009 av Zagbladet

[Sophonax]

Personlig ser jeg ikke behov for ekstra movement speed. Heller ikke BoK, for å si det sånn.

Jeg buffer aldri BoK uansett. Er alltid en annen i raidet som har det, så bortkasta points som jeg kan bruke på andre ting.

 

Men, smak, behag og behov.

 

"Jeg kjører min stil, dere kjører deres. Ferdig med saken."

[Kuldesjokk]

Tja, for oss som tasser rundt og gjør mest timanns (skal gjøre timanns når ulduar kommer)

så merker du plutselig at en protpala eller holypala må plukke med seg forskjellige buffs og leke litt buffbot, man har gjerne ikke så mange av de der

[bear^_InnleggNO]

(...)

Kan vel også legge til at, som med Onkel, er jeg litt kritisk til Wowwiki og informasjonen som er publisert der. (Greit med generell informasjon om ting, men personlige meninger som ''This really is THE tanking spec right now.'' syns jeg ikke har noe der å gjøre..) Forholder meg til den informasjonen som er gitt på ''maintankadin'' siden den siden vel er på høyde med ElitistJerks når det gjelder Prot-paladins.

 

Sant nok, men det var mer som et kontrautsagn på det påstanden om at den andre speccen er "THE tankingspec". I mine øyne finnes det ingen fasitsvar på hvilken talents som er best og det koker ned på personelig preferanse. Selvfølgelig, man kan nå gjøre det helt typisk og koke dette ned på 50 formler for de 2 speccene hvor den ene speccen vinner med 0.01% margin og derfor "vinner".

 

Å argumentere med at "Dette er den beste speccen" synes jeg blir litt for drøyt, jeg er klart villig til å legge Cosha's specc i førsteposten men vil ha pros and cons for den speccen før jeg gjør det, det er tungt nok for nye tanker å velge specc som det er.

[Lycantrophe]

Førstepost:

 

Den store Paladin-tråden

 

Kort introduksjon

Paladin er en sterkt melee-basert klasse som blander meleebasert skade, manabruk og healing, samt meget sterke buffs. Paladins kan bruke all armour og alle melee-våpen, unntatt daggers og staves.

 

Styrker

Paladin har tradisjonelt veldig høye tall i både healing, tanking og dpsing. Jevnt over den beste tank-healeren, perfekt for å toppe lett skade og virkelig pumpe ut store mengder healing ved behov.

 

DPS-wise har paladins virkelig tatt seg opp den siste tiden, og retribution per nå er et meget godt tre. PvPmessig er nærmest all skade burst-basert, med trege slag og svære våpen.

 

Protection har siden The Burning Crusade vært en relativt populær vei å gå, med uvanlig god threat-generering og gode AoE-tank abilities. Krever noe utstyr, og er nå meget blockbasert. Gode maintanks, ikke fullt så gode offtanks ta threat er manabasert og paladins avhenger av å ta imot skade for å få mana.

 

Tilgjengelige raser

 

Alliance

Human

Dwarf

Draenei

 

Horde

Blood Elf

 

 

Ordbok, spells og abilities

 

Holy

Beacon of Light - BoL - Paladins AoE- og dobbelteahling-verktøy. Plasserer en buff på et valgt target. Alle heals du gjør på andre raid/party targets healer også dette targetet. Glimrende for dobbel tankheal og AoE-healing i raids.

Blessing of Wisdom - BoW - Gir en god dose mp5 (mana per 5sec). Noen liker denne, andre ikke. Med mindre du har Blessing of Kings bør dette være førstevalget av selfbuff som holy.

Cleanse - Fjerner 1 disease, 1 poison og 1 negative magic effect. Tidvis den beste defensive dispellen i spillet. Relativ lav manacost (236 @ 80) og stort virkeområde.

Concentration Aura - Gir alle i party/raid -35% casting pushback. Dette gjør at paladins, med -70% pushback (Spiritual Focus) har -105% pushback etter 5 talentpoints i Holy. Healingspells kan castes uten avbrytelse. Improved gir denne -15% ekstra resistance, i tillegg til 30% mindre silence/spell lock duration.

Consecration - Legger en stasjonær AoE-dot på bakken, som etter 3.0 scaler godt med både attackpower og spellpower, i tillegg til ikke å ha target-cap. Både retribution- og protectionpaladins prioriterer denne spellen ganske høyt, holy i noe mindre grad.

Divine Favour - DF - Enkel buff uten global cooldown som gir din neste Holy Shock/Holy Light/Flash of Light 100% critical strike chance.

Divine Illumination - DI - Finfin buff i dyp holy som reduserer manacost på alle spells med 50% i 15sec. Paladins sterkeste healing spells, Holy Light (og tidvis Beacon of Light) koster ganske mye, og en så stor cost-reduksjon kommer godt med i lengre kamper.

Divine Plea - DP - Divine Plea er paladins variant av druidspellen innervate. Siden paladins mana-regen ikke er spiritbasert er dette et nyttig verktøy for å få igjen mana. Per nå gir denne en penalty på -20% healing, forventes å nerfes til -50% healing i 3.1, som gjør at spellen må brukes noe mer forsiktig.

Exorcism - Exorcism gjør per nå litt holy-skade (scaler med både attackpower og spellpower) til undeads og demoner, forandres i 3.1 til å gjøre skade mot alle. Glyphed interrupter denne spellcasts i tillegg til skaden.

Flash of Light - FoL - En av paladinens tre healing-spells. Denne er rask (1.5sec base), billig (307 mana @ 80) og healer for relativt mye. Perfekt for topping og healing av ikke-voldsom skade. Faller til kort der tanks tar mye skade fort.

Holy Light - HL - Dette er paladinens virkelig gode healingspell, dog noe dyr. Cast er 2.5sec base, med buffs har jeg sett den nede i 0.4sec. Med mitt gear (1900 spellpower) healer en gjennomsnitlig holy light for 9k, critter for 13-14. Uten annet enn selfbuffs. Har sett tall i 20k-klassen med raidbuffs og wings. Skal HPS (healing per second) teller er det ingen healing som når opp til en paladins Holy Light.

Holy Shock - HS - Instant healing/damage spell med en fin buff (Infusion of Light) knyttet til seg. Panikk-healing til øyeblikket noen tar uventet damage. Ganske dyr (par med holy light), så hvor mye du bør bruke den er situasjonsavhengig. PvP-wise er den kanon, og gir fint burstpotensiale hvor nødvendig.

Holy Wrath - HW - Denne er morsom. Treffer alle undead/demons i 10y radius, gjør holy damage og stunner de i 3sec.

Lay on Hands - LoH - Healer for 100% av din hp, restorer mana og, med talent, gir 50% armour bonus i 15sec. Brukes den på deg selv, med glyph kan den også brukes som mana-restore, 5k mana. Snasen spell til ikke å koste noe.

Purify - En svakere versjon av cleanse, move along.

Redemption - OMGREZZPLS - Paladins resurrection-spell. Ganske selvforklarende.

Sacred Shield - SS - Paladins løse blanding av Earth Shield og Power Word: Shield. Plasserer en buff på targetet som i første omgang ikke gjør noe. Når det derimot tar skade kommer det opp et skjold som absorberer 500 + 75% av spelldamage (1000 spelldamage - 750 ekstra damage absorbed). 6sec ICD (Internal cooldown). I tillegg gir den deg 50% critchance på Flash of Light når det er oppe.

Seal of Light - SoL - Gir alle dine melee-angrep mulighet til å restore hp. Sikkert noe bruk i PvP, glimrende for å soloe elites under levling. Judges for en dæsj damage.

Seal of Righteousness - SoR - Gir alle melee-angrep en ekstra holy damage bonus. Judges for kurant grinde-damage.

Seal of Wisdom - SoW - Gir alle melee-angrep muligheten til å restore dugelige mengder mana. Judges for en dæsj damage.

Sense Undead - Tracking, viser hvor det er undeads på kartet. Glyphed gir denne en liten prosentøkning i damage mot undeads så lenge denne er aktiv.

Turn Evil - Paladins undead- og demon-fear. Virker på samme måte som warlock sin. Kan glyphes til instant. Denne er kung i pvp mot warlocks (pets + Metamorphosis).

 

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Protection

Devotion Aura - Aura som gir alle i party/raid 1205 aura (mer med Improved Devotion Aura) og 6% healing recieved (Improved Devotion Aura)

Divine Intervention - DI - Ofrer deg selv for å legge et beskyttende skjold rundt et party/raid-member. Gir full immunitet i 3min, men hemmer bevegelse. Paladinen får ikke durability-loss av dette, så den er ideel for å spare noen gull i tillegg til å redde en som kan resurrecte.

Divne Protection - Paladins shield-wall. -50% damage taken i 12sec, gir forbearance.

Divine Shield - DS - Bubble! Plasserer paladinen i en boble i 12sec og gir full immunitet (mot alt annet enn mass dispell). Gir forbearance.

Fire Resistance Aura - Gir alle i party/raid en dose fire resistance.

Frost Resistance Aura - Gir alle i party/raid en dose frost resistance.

Hammer of Justice - HoJ - 6sec stun og spell interrupt (dersom noen skulle være immune).

Hand of Freedom - HoF/BoF - Fjerner alle snares og gjør targetet immune mot snares så lenge duration varer. Med Divine Purpose fjerner den stuns på cast i tillegg.

Hand of Protection - HoP/BoP - Gjør targetet immune mot phsyical damage og debuffs. Gir forbearance.

Hand of Reckoning - 30y taunt, et lite dask med holy damage. 10sec cooldown.

Hand of Sacrifice - HoS/BoS - Buff som gjør at 30% av all skade targetet får blir overført til deg. Fint for fights som Maiden (Karazhan/Halls of Stone) der repentance bør brytes, evt. andre fights der tank-burst må tones ned litt.

Hand of Salvation - HoS/BoS - Buff til party/raid members -20% threat over 10 sekunder. Fint om noen begynner å nærme seg tankens threat.

Righteous Defence - RD - Paladins 3-mob taunt. Funker kun dersom noen andre har aggro. 40y range.

Righteous Fury - RF - Paladins tankebuff, gir 90% extra threat fra holy damage. Talented gir den i tillegg 6% damage reduction.

Seal of Justice - SoJ - Gir alle melee-angrep muligheten til å stunne targetet for 2sec (blir antagelig 3 sec i 3.1). Judges for en dæsj damage.

Shadow Resistance Aura - Gir alle i party/raid en dose shadow resistance.

Shield of Righteousness - ShoR- Paladins Shieldslam. Gjør 400 + block value i holy damage, 6sec cooldown. Vil antagelig silence i 3.1.

Spiritual attunement - SA - Passiv ability som gjør 10% av effektiv healing mottatt om til mana. En nødvendighet for at tanks skal klare å holde mana oppe.

Blessing of Kings - BoK - Buff som gir 10% økning til alle stats. Trainable i 3.1

Blessing of Sanctuary - BoSanc. Buff som gir -3% damage taken, og 2%maxmana/20 runic power/10 rage på avoidance/blocks. Tankbuff #1 der den er tilgjengelig.

Holy Shield - HS - Gir 30% blockchance i 10sec/8 charges. Blockede angrep gjør i tillegg en pen mengde holy damage. Gjør block en meget verdifull stat for protection paladins.

Avenger's Shield - AS - Kaster et magisk skjold opptil 30y som gjør en meget pen mengde holy damage, dazer og hopper til 2 targets. Glyphed kan man øke damagen, men fjerne hoppene.

Hammer of the Righteous - HotR - Slag med 6sec cooldown som gjør holy damage, treffer 3 targets og proccer seal (på alle!). Scaler med Mainhand weapon damage.

 

---

 

Retribution

Avenging Wrath - AW/Wings - Buff som gir Forbearance-spells 30sec cooldown, og øker damage/healing med 20% i 20sec. 3min cooldown, burde være oppe så ofte som mulig. 2min cooldown med Sanctified Wrath.

Blessing of Might - BoM - Buff som gir en pen attackpower-bonus. 25% bonus fra talents (Improved Blessing of Might), til en total på + 687 attackpower.

Crusader Aura - Gir alle i party/raid 20% mounted movement speed.

Hammer of Wrath - HoW - Paladinens Execute-ability. Kan kun brukes under 20%, men gjør meget god damage. 6sec cooldown. Scaler veldig godt med attackpower. Sanctified Wrath gir den i tillegg ekstra 50% critchance.

Judgement of Justice - JoJ - Judger sealet du har oppe, gjør noe damage og legger på en debuff som hindrer movement speed increase (typ ghost wolf, sprint eller travelform). Med Heart of the Crusader (3/3) gir den i tillegg 3% crit mot det targetet til alle angripere.

Judgement of Light - JoL - Judger sealet du har oppe, gjør noe damage og legger på en debuff som gir angripere en mulighet til å restore litt hp (tenk Seal of Light light (pun intended)). Heart of the Crusader virker naturligvis her også.

Judgement of Wisdom - JoL - Judger sealet du har oppe, gjør noe damage og legger på en debuff som gir angripere en mulighet til å restore litt mana (tenk Seal of Wisdom light). Heart of the Crusader virker naturligvis her også.

Retribution Aura - Aura som gjør at angripere tar litt damage. Sanctified Retribution gir 3% damage til alle påvirket av Retribution Aura, Swift Retribution gir 3% haste.

Seal of Blood/Martyr - SoB/SoM - Seal of Blood er DPS-sealet. Det gjør damage basert på weapon og attackpower, men gjør at paladinen tar litt skade. Dette er bra, for da må det healing til, noe som resulterer i mer mana, og derfra mer damage. Judges for gode mengder damage og mer skade tatt.

Seal of Vengeance/Seal of Corruption - SoV/SoC - Tankeseal. Plasserer en dot som gjør holy damage på targetet, og forsterker SoVs judge. Stabil, trygg threat, samt kan stackes av HotR.

Repentance - Paladinens CC, virker noe som en rogues Sap. Mot PvE-mobs varer den et minutt, 6sekunder i PvP. Instant cast, 20y range.

Crusader Strike - CS - Melee-angrep som gir deg et "gratis" weaponswing med 110% damage. 6sec cooldown, dpsability #2, etter Judgement.

Divine Storm - DS - Paladins whirlwind, høyste prioritet vs. flere targets. Healer for 25% av damage gjort, proccer seal.

 

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Nøkkeltalents

 

Spiritual Focus - -70% pushback på Flash of Light og Holy Light. Sier seg selv.

Divine Intellect - 15% intellect.

Illumination - Gir deg 60% av base mana cost tilbake på FoL/HL/HS crits. Paladinens mana regen er basert på dette talentet.

Light's Grace - Etter HL cast reduseres casttime på HL med 0.5 sec. Fin når det blir nødvendig med mye healing.

Holy Guidance - 20% intellect -> spellpower.

Infusion of Light - Etter HS crit blir neste HL 0.5sec cast mindre, neste FoL blir 1.5sec cast mindre (instant). Meget sterk i kombinasjon med Divine Favour.

Judgements of the Pure - 25% damage på seals og judges, samt 15% haste i 1min etter å ha judget.

 

One-handed Weapon Specilization - 10% damage done -> mer threat.

Touched by the Light - 30% Stamina -> spellpower.

Shield of the Templar - -3% damage taken, mer damage på ShoR/HS -> mer threat.

 

Vengeance - Stacker på crit, 3% damage done per stack, 3 stacks. 9% damage done for 3 talent points, ingen grunn til ikke å ta.

Judgements of the Wise - JotW - 15% base mana return, replenishmentbuff til raidet. Mer eller mindre evig mana for en del healers, og gjør at Retribution paladins ikke går oom på 40 sekunder.

Fanaticism - Ettersom judgements per nå er Retributions sterkeste nuke (+ JotW) er 25% crit her ganske mye damage å hente.

Sheath of Light - 30% Attackpower -> Spellpower.

 

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Generelt

Spellpower - SP - Øker damage/healing gjort med spells. Paladin får også spellpower ut av raw stats (dersom talented, noe enhver paladin bør gjøre), henholdsvis Intellect, Stamina og Strength (egentlig attackpower, men den kommer senere)

Attackpower - AP - Attackpower, øker damage gjort med melee-baserte slag og noen spells.

Strength - Gir attackpower og block value.

Stamina - Gir health.

Intellect - Gir mana, spell critical chance, mp5 (gjennom Divine Plea og Arcane Torrent)

Spirit - Gjør ingenting.

Agility - Gir melee crit, svak armourøkning.

Haste - Spells castes fortere, melee swing timer reduseres.

Armour Penetration - ArP - Ignorerer deler av armouren til mobs/players. Trengs i store mengder for å bli særlig bra. Dårlig for paladins da mye damage er holy.

Critical Strike - Gir spell- og melee-critical chance. Spell crits healer/skader for 50% mer, melee/physical for 100% mer.

Avoidance - Summen av miss, dodge og parry. Gjør at du ikke tar skadet det aktuelle angrepet.

Defence - Reduserer sjangsen for å bli crittet ("cap" på 540 defence skill), gir deg en liten dose mitigation/avoidance.

Mitigation - Reduserer skade tatt, henholdsvis Block og armour.

Block - Blokkerer et angrep, absorberer deler av skaden. Justeres etter Block value.

Hit - Øker sjangsen din til å treffe mobs. Soft cap på 8-9% (Gjerne noe feed på ghost hit her). Strength scaler mye bedre etter dette, tidvis før og.

Expertise - Reduserer sjangsen for dodge/parry mot deg. Som dps skal du stå bak mobs, og derfor ignorere parry-delen, men dodge skjer fortsatt. Cap på 25 expertise. Tanks bør ha noe expertise for å hindre parrygib. Veldig viabel stat for begge melee-specs.

Armour - Reduserer physical damage motatt, prosentmessig og scaler regressivt. (Lite armour gir mye reduction per poeng enn når du har mye armour).

Resilience - Reduserer sjangsen for å bli crittet, og reduserer skaden crits gjør. Mer en PvP-stat.'

 

Glyphs

Her er de reelle glyphalternativene for hver spec.

 

Holy PvE

 

Major

 

Glyph of Flash of Light - 5% Flash of Light critical chance.

Glyph of Holy Light - Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount to up to 5 friendly targets within 20 yards of the initial target.

 

Den siste er en smakssak, egentlig, men jeg ser tre gode alternativer:

 

Glyph of Divinity - Lay on Hands gir deg like mye mana som targetet. Jeg bruker denne, og med Glyph of Lay on Hands gir det meg et manabatteri på ca. 4.5k mana on demand.

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom - -5% mana cost på alle healing spells.

Glyph of Seal of Light - 5% mer healing done.

 

Minor

Glyph of Lay on Hands - 20% økt manarestore på LoH.

 

Resten spiller egentlig ganske liten rolle, men denne er ganske fin (til 5mans, hvertfall).

Glyph of the Wise - -50% mana cost på SoW.

 

 

Holy PvP

 

Major

Glyph of Flash of Light - 5% Flash of Light critical chance.

 

Resten kommer an på hvordan du skal spille, men med den nye Exorcism er denne ganske viabel:

Glyph of Exorcism - Exorcism interrupts spellcasts.

 

Minor

Kikk litt her, Glyph of the Wise er den eneste jeg umiddelbart kan tenke meg er kjekk.

 

Protection

 

Major

 

Glyph of Judgement - 10% judgement damage.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance - 10% Expertise.

 

Den siste er vel mer eller mindre valgfri, men denne er alltids kjekk:

 

Glyph of Righteous Defence - 8% hit på RD.

 

Minor

 

Ikke særlig til spesielt gode minor glyphs, men disse to har sikkert et bruksområde:

Glyph of Lay on Hands

Glyph of Sense Undead - 1% damage done mot undeads, så lenge sense er aktiv.

 

 

Retribution PvE

 

Major

Glyph of Judgement - 10% judgement damage

Glyph of Consecration - 2sec cooldown, 2sec duration.

 

Den siste er valgfri, men jeg tenker meg at du bør velge en av disse:

Glyph of Avenging Wrath - -3sec Hammer of Wrath cooldown med wings oppe.

Glyph of Spiritual Attunement - 2% mer mana fra healing.

Glyph of Crusader Strike - -20% mana cost.

 

Minor

 

De eneste jeg ser med en reell nytteverdi:

 

Glyph of Lay on Hands

Glyph of Sense Undead

 

Retribution PvP

 

Major

Glyph of Judgement

Glyph of Seal of Command - Fra 7 ppm til 8.4 ppm.

Glyph of Exorcism (Dersom den beholdes slik etter 3.1)

 

 

Minor

 

Tjah. Lite annet enn Sense Undead som er å hente her, for å slaye Death Knight-ghouls.

 

Gems

 

Et knippe gode gems for hver spec.

 

 

Holy

Brilliant Autumn's Glow - 16 intellect

Runed Scarlet Ruby - 19 spellpower

Luminous Monarch Topaz - 9 spellpower/8 intellect

 

Blå er det usedvanlig dårlig med, personlig plasserer jeg 27int gems i de.

 

Protection

Solid Sky Sapphire - 24 stamina

Guardian's Twilight Opal

 

Retribution

Bold Scarlet Ruby - 16 strength

Inscribed Monarch Topaz - 8 strength/8 crit.

 

 

Talents

 

Legger ved et par cookie-cutter builds.

 

PvE Holy - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA0gMzhVuMxRtZVcbxbh

PvP 2v2 Holy, Judgement - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=svA0x0zhVzGxRLZVdbhrh0b

Retribution PvE - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZaxZVfdtbIufMsguio

 

Post gjerne noen flere, så skal jeg edite inn.

 

 

Theorycraft

 

Rating

Rating av verdi for protection paladins.

 

Professions

 

Jewelcrafting - 33 item points (vs. vanlige gems) i tillegg til at de er prismatic

Skinning - 25 crit

Tailoring - 18.75 mp5

Mining - 50 stamina

Alchemy - 37 spellpower eller 13mp5, 64ap,

Herbalism - Liten hot

Enchanting - 38 spellpower, 64 ap eller 48 stamina

Engineering - ~23 haste rating.

Blacksmithing - 32 item points.

Inscription - 32 spellpower, 64 ap

Leatherworking - 64 ap, 37 spellpower, 50 stamina

 

 

Begrunnelse og samling (engelsk)

 

En samling over tre av de "viktigste" sidene for paladin theorycraft, alle fra Elitist Jerks.

 

Holy

Skjul

The Holy Paladin Guide

Last updated on 12/28/2008

 

I. Introduction

 

Theorycrafting Tools

While talking about skills can be useful, sometimes you need to crunch the numbers to see what wins out. This is where these tools can come in, to help you find out what gear is better for you. As far as I know there is no Holy Paladin spreadsheet updated for 3.0, but if there is please let me know and I'll include. Your only option now is to use Rawr, you can read more about it in the Rawr Healadin Module thread.

 

Acronyms

There are many acronyms in WoW, and Paladins are doing there part to keep that true. For the new Paladins out there this is to help you not be totally confused while reading posts.

AW: Avenging Wrath.

BoK: Blessing of Kings

BoW: Blessing of Wisdom

BoL: Beacon of Light. Was formerly Blessing of Light, but that spell no longer exists.

CD: Cooldown.

DF: Divine Favor.

DI: Divine Illumination. For the purposes of this thread, it doesn't refer to Divine Intervention.

DP: Divine Protection

FoL: Flash of Light

HL: Holy Light.

HPM: Healing per mana.

HPS: Healing per second.

HS: Holy Shock.

ICD: Internal Cooldown.

IoL: Infusion of Light.

JoL: Judgement of Light

JotP: Judgement of the Pure

JoW: Judgement of Wisdom

LG: Light's Grace

Mp5: Mana per 5 sec.

OOM: Out of mana.

SP: Spell Power.

SS: Sacred Shield.

WWS: WoW Web Stats.

5SR: 5 second rule.

 

Assumed Raid Buffs

With the changes to buffs so that they are almost all raid wide, it is safe to assume during discussion you will have these buffs (unless otherwise stated).

5% Spell Haste, from Wrath of Air totem.

3% Spell Haste, from Sanctified Retribution or Imp Moonkin Aura.

15% Spell Haste, from Judgements of the Pure.

5% Spell Crit, from Moonkin Aura or Elemental Oath.

144 Spell Power increase from Flame Tongue, or 280 from Totem of Wrath.

0.25% max mana per sec, from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.

10% increase to stats with Blessing of Kings.

91mp5 from Blessing of Wisdom, or 109mp5 with Imp BoW.

97 Intellect, from Arcane Intellect and Mark of the Wild.

 

II. Stats

For each stat I will try to demonstrate what 100 items points gives, which is equivalent to 5 epic quality Northrend gems. For most stats 1 item point is equal to 1 point in the stat. The exceptions are Spell Power (1 item point = 1.166 sp), Mp5 (1 item point = 0.4mp5) and Stamina (1 item point = 1.5 stamina).

 

Stamina

While this won't increase how much healing you do directly, a dead healer is not doing any healing. You won't need stamina for all fights though, but if you are going to get a piece with low (or no) stamina I would recommend keeping a set of gear around that has higher stamina. So you can throw them on for fights with heavy AoE damage. For 100 item points you get 150, which with BoK becomes 1650 health.

 

Intellect

Intellect has received a HUGE boost with WotLK mechanics, and is now the best stat for Holy Paladins by far. Let me list what 100 Intellect gives you:

126.5 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect

1897 Mana at the start of the fight

39.5mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.

21.3mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.

4.7mp5 from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.

25.3 Spell Power

0.759% Spell Crit

This gives you a lot of mana, which lets you cast a lot more Holy Lights and be more liberal in using them. If you stack this stat you will be able to spam Holy Light during most fights.

 

Spirit

Despite being told while WotLK was still in its initial phases that they wanted to make spirit good for all healers, nothing ended up getting changed. Spirit still is as crappy as ever for Paladins, you are never out of the 5SR to gain any mana from it. 100 spirit gives you nothing .

 

Spell Power

Increases how much healing your spells do at a rate dependent on each spell, exact values are given in the spells section. FoL scales really well with Spell Power because it has a low mana cost, but gets more benefit from Spell Power then most 1.5sec spells. So once you get to higher gear levels its low amount of base healing won't really matter, since 75% of the healing it does is from Spell Power. 100 Item points gives you 120 Spell Power, which increases each FoL by 134, and HL by 223.

 

Critical Strike Rating

Critical Heals end up healing for 50% more and cost 60% less mana, and 100 Spell Crit gives +2.17% crit rate at 80. Crit scale really well, but it starts out not being that great compared to other stats. This graph shows you how much effective mana is gained when you add 1% crit at varying initial crit rates. As you can see crit scales geometrically with itself, because you spend the extra mana from crit heals casting more heals which can crit. So going from 48% to 49% crit gives you twice as much mana as going from 0% to 1% crit. It also scales with how big your effective mana pool is.

 

Crit Rating is a good stat, especially at high gear levels. Though Intellect gives you 1/3 of the amount of Crit for the same item points, while also giving you all the additional mana.

 

Haste Rating

Increases how fast your heals cast, but they cost the same amount of healing per mana. 10% Spell Haste does not mean your spells cast 10% faster, rather it means in a given time period you will cast 10% more spells. So the cast time after haste is calculated by (Base Cast Time)/(1 + Spell Haste). The more haste you get the less cast time it will reduce, but it will increase how many spells you can cast by the same amount. Its important to note that all haste effects (Wrath of Air, Sanc Ret, JotP, and Gear) stack multiplicatively. So with all of them you only need 20.6% haste from gear to get haste soft capped (50%, for 1sec GCDs). 100 Spell Haste at 80 will give you 3% haste. With the amount of mana we have now and that people rarely die if a HL reaches them. Haste increases the chance that HL will reach them in time, and increase the amount we can put out.

 

Mana per 5 sec

Gives you the specified amount of mana over 5 seconds, wether or not you have been casting a spell. This stat is pretty crappy now, with Divine Plea intellect is better then it in every single way by far. 100 item points will give you 40mp5, which is 2880 mana over 6 minutes. Even though it isn't a great stats, you can't just ignore it though. Items with mp5 can still be really good. Just because of there higher ilvl, or not being any better itemized items of the same ilvl.

 

III. Abilities

Holy Paladins are no longer restricted to just casting two spells in combat. We got a few new good ones, and some old ones are now worth using. At level 80 a Paladin has 4394 base mana, which is a 48% increase over level 70. This is a brief run down of all the skills.

 

Holy Light

With how much mana you can have now, because of Intellect and Divine Plea, this is your main spell that you can spam most of the fight. Holy Light receives 188.5% of spell power per cast if you have Healing Light, which was buffed by 25% with WotLK. There are a lot of new mana reduction effects (Libram, GSoW, and 4pcT7) that if you have all them brings the HPM for HL and FoL very close. Remember that the amount of mana returned by Illumination is unchanged, so these effects are even more powerful. HL will very often overheal with how much we can cast it now, but that is okay. Unless you are going OOM before the fight ends, it doesn't matter how much it overheals.

 

Flash of Light

This is now used when mana is tight, or if there is a lull in a fight and not much is needing healing. It receives 113% of spell power per cast, if you have Healing Light. This was buffed by 25% with WotLK, so it scales even better with +healing now.

 

Holy Shock

Yay! This spell has sucked for so long, it used to only deal damage, and now it is finally a good healing spell. This spell got greatly improved in WotLK, to heal for a lot more, have a 40 yd range as a heal (finally), and a 6 sec cooldown. Along with Infusion of Light, which makes it so whenever you crit with Holy Shock, your next FoL is instant or your next Holy Light is 1 sec shorter cast time. It receives 90.5% of spell power per spell casting, if you have Healing Light. This is great a spell to use when you are moving and can't cast anything else, or the tank took a huge burst and they will likely die before you can get a Holy Light off. It is around as efficient as Holy Light, so I wouldn't use it in place of FoL if you don't need the extra hps or an instant heal.

 

Beacon of Light

This is the spell that we were given to help us deal with being able to heal multiple targets at the same time. This is no CoH or Chain Heal, but its not meant to be. It can be much better, or it can be worse, it depends on the situation. This only takes into account effective heals, so if you heal someone for 4k, but they are only down 3k then the BoL will get healed for 3k. A common complaint of it is that it can't be relied on because of overheals not providing any healing. It also only works on Paladin healing abilities, so if you have a trinket (or something else) that heals then that won't proc BoL. If you place the Beacon on tank and go to raid heal you will need to watch the tanks health still and be ready to toss Holy Lights on him when needed. It can be a huge mana sink to keep it up, but it can be very worth in a lot of situations. But don't feel like you need to have 100% uptime on it, sometimes it just won't be effective when you only have 1 target that can use heals.

 

A perfect example of using it while tank healing is in Illidan Phase 2. While you can't rely on it to keep the tank you are healing alive, you can use it to greatly help the other tank stay alive. So at the start of P2 I will cast it on the tank the I am not healing, and then just heal my tank as normal. Let me tell you, getting a 1.7sec 10k Holy Light crit (with AW) that heals my tank, and then heals the Beacon for 10k is amazingly awesome.

 

Sacred Shield

First I will clarify how SS works, when you cast the spell on someone they gain a 30 second buff. Nothing happens until the target takes damage, when they do they will take the full amount, but will gain a second buff. This new buff will absorb the next 500 + 75% of your Spell Power damage and then expire, while it is active it will also increase the crit rate of FoL by 50%. This 2nd buff lasts a maximum of 6 seconds, and can only occur every 6 seconds. The ICD on the proc is shared between all SS's on the target, so it doesn't stack between multiple Paladins.

 

This is most effective on Tanks since they take damage often, but can also be useful on group members if you know they are going to be taking damage more often then every 6 seconds.

 

Avenging Wrath

With WotLK this now effects healing, but is reduced to a 20% increase. In 3.0.8 its was changed to no longer cause a GCD, and to only cause a 30sec blackout period with Bubble. So its much easier to use while healing, and should be used often unless you think you might need Bubble in those 30 seconds.

 

Divine Plea

This spell gives an insane amount of mana back, and makes Intellect an amazing stat. You do lose healing output, but the extra amounts of Holy Lights it lets you cast makes it worth it on all but trivial fights.

 

Divine Favor

This is unchanged with WotLK, but with IoL it warrants no longer being relegated to just a HL macro. Saving it to use with HS for when the tank gets a big burst, for a combo with HL, can be very useful.

 

Divine Illumination

Nothing really changed with DI, try to save it for when you are going to be casting a lot of Holy Lights or have to renew BoL. But, don't let it sit off cooldown for too long.

 

Lay on Hands

Is significantly better to use in fights now, since it no longer drains all of your remaining mana. Its uses are pretty obvious, save it for when the tank gets a huge burst and will likely die before a cast time spell reaches him. If you cast this on yourself with Glyph of Divinity and Glyph of Lay on Hands you will get 4680 mana back. Which is a substantial amount mana if you won't need to use it on the tank.

 

Judgement of Wisdom/Judgement of Light

With Crusader Strike no longer refreshing Judgements and JotP, a Holy Paladin needs to actually judge on a regular basis. There are two main different strategies you can use for judging, you can either be trying to keep a 100% JotP uptime, or to keep 100% uptime on the Judgement debuff. It costs 3 GCDs per 2 min to keep JotP up, and 7 GCDs per 2 min to keep JotP and Judgement debuff up. Either way though with 15% extra haste you will be able to get more total healing spells out even after "wasting" 7 GCDs.

 

JoL was also buffed with WotLK and is definitely worth keeping up, but it scales significantly better with AP then SP. So if you have a Ret or Prot pally in the raid it is better for them to do JoL and you do JoW. Conversely though the Ret/Prot Pally will have a much more reliable uptime on there Judgement, since sometimes you just can't spare the global, and some classes are dependent on 100% JoW uptime for their DPS cycle. So if you can't guarantee to keep up JoW, it might be better for you to do your weaker JoL.

 

Hand of Sacrifice

The new version of this spell for WotLK is now very useful for PvE. A good button to use to help keep your tank alive when he gets some burst on him. Be careful though, the tank can take a lot of damage which will the be transfered to you. If your tank has BoL on him, it can be useful to just heal yourself while HoS is active so you don't die.

 

Hand of Protection

Nothing new with this for WotLK besides a new name. Its good to use on someone when they pull aggro. Can also be used on tanks in some fights when you need to force a tank transition.

 

Hand of Salvation

This now gives 20% threat reduction over its duration. A dps will likely call for you to use it on them when they are close to pulling aggro.

 

IV. Gear

Most of the individual stats are discussed in the stats section. So this section is going to more geared for abnormal stats on items like meta gems, librams, and trinkets.

 

While there will always be one stat that is the best for you, that doesn't mean you should stack it with little concern for the cost. The more of a stat is on the item, the more items points it takes per stat point. For example, one item could have 10 intellect, or it could 8 intellect and 7 crit rating, while being the same item level. So it is in your best interest most of the time to have items with balanced stats, and use gems to stack a stat since they are exempt from this rule. Sometimes balanced items won't always be the best, or the distribution of stats on another item could be better, but in the general case balanced items are better.

 

Meta Gems

WotLK added a lot of new options for meta gems to choose from. For all the comparisons I am using 1400 Int and 25114 mana as a base, approximately mostly epic gear that is favoring Int. I also assume a 6 min fight, 4 Divine Pleas, and 90% Replenishment uptime.

 

[insightful Earthsiege Diamond] (5% chance to restore 600 mana with a 15 second ICD)

26.6 Intellect (After Kings/Divine Intellect)

399 mana at start.

399 mana from Divine Plea.

323 mana from Replenishment.

48 mana from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.

5.3 spell power.

0.156% crit.

4800 mana from proc. With ICD an average of 45 seconds per proc.

Total: 5921 mana (+48 if Blood Elf), 5.3 spell power, 0.156% crit.

The proc is approximately 70mp5, varying on your ratio of HL to FoL. This is the best meta you can use.

 

[Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond]

This is can be a good meta if you feel your burst healing is too low. Normally HL crits are big enough that the extra amount healed is often wasted, so that I find the extra HLs I can cast while using an IED better.

 

[Ember Skyflare Diamond]

28 Intellect

420 mana at start.

420 mana from Divine Plea.

340 mana from Replenishment.

50 mana from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.

30.6 spell power.

0.168% crit.

Total: 1180 mana (+50 if Blood Elf), 30.6 spell power, 0.168% crit.

Though it looks good on paper, you will never get enough Int to have it come even close to Insightful.

 

[beaming Earthsiege Diamond]

502 mana at start.

502 mana from Divine Plea.

407 mana from Replenishment.

60 mana from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.

0.457% crit.

Total: 1411 mana (+60 if Blood Elf), and 0.457% crit.

Similar to Ember, it is in the same boat of 2% being too small of a benefit.

 

Librams

 

[Libram of Renewal]

This is a huge increase in output, because of how much mana it saves. It reduces the cost of your Holy Light spell by almost 10%, it is the best libram you can get. Remember that Illumination works off of base mana, so you will still get the same amount of mana back from crits.

 

[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Justice]

This is a good Libram and works well with the style of FoL. It just can't rival the massive mana reduction on Libram of Renewal.

 

[Libram of Tolerance]

I don't see any situation where I would use it over Renewal. Since I can use the 113 mana I saved on a Holy Light to do a lot more than 265 healing.

 

Trinkets

Just a list for now, I'll add some discussion for them later.

 

[Living Ice Crystals]

[Forethought Talisman]

[illustration of the Dragon Soul]

[soul of the Dead]

[Darkmoon Card: Illusion]

[Darkmoon Card: Greatness] (+90 Intellect version)

[Embrace of the Spider]

[Je'Tze's Bell]

[The Egg of Mortal Essence]

[Forge Ember]

[Figurine - Sapphire Owl]

[soul Preserver]

 

V. Glyphs

Personally at 80 I am going to use Holy Light, Divinity, and Seal of Wisdom for my Major Glyphs. Here are all of the options you have currently.

 

Glyph of Holy Light

With 3.0.3 this Glyph got change, so the initial target of the heal can no longer get a proc from the Glyph, and how much it procs for is different. If your heal doesn't crit, it will proc off of effective healing amount if its less then 50% overheal, otherwise it will proc off total amount. If it does crit, it will proc off of effective healing amount if its less then 66% overheal, other wise it will proc off total amount. It does not smart heal, but rather heals 5 random targets in range. Which greatly diminishes the effect compared to CoH, but it can be very effective at healing when the whole raid takes damage. It can do a substantial amount of healing in some fights (I have had up to 15% of healing done), so I wouldn't go anywhere without it.

 

Glyph of Flash of Light

This is getting changed to +5% FoL crit chance in 3.0.8. Reduces the average cost of FoL by 9.21, and increases the average amount healed by 2.5%. The Glyph I would consider using this over is Glyph of Divinity. I don't currently cast FoL enough to make it better then Divinity though, but with low gear levels or long fights it can be better.

 

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom/Glyph of Seal of Light

Both really good glyphs, especially since you will be keeping a Seal up anyway for JotP.

 

GSoW ends up reducing the average mana cost of Holy Light by more then 5%, because it doesn't change the amount of mana returned by Illumination. With Libram and 4pcT7, GSoW takes the mana cost from 1102 to 1044. Crits restore an average 344 mana, with 45% crit rate. That takes the average cost for HL without SoW to be 758, and 700 with it. That is a 7.6% average mana cost reduction.

 

GSoL will be better if you are having issues with not having enough burst healing, otherwise GSoW lets you output a lot more healing.

 

Glyph of Divinity

A good Glyph with no downside. If you cast LoH on yourself with this you will get double the mana returned. Which will make it great for fights where you are crunched on mana, and don't need the burst heal of a Lay on Hands.

 

Glyph of Spiritual Atunement

You will need to get healed for 117,000 healing by another healer for this to return more mana then Divinity.

 

Glyph of Cleansing

Not a good Glyph, since if you are spending a lot of GCDs on cleanse you won't have mana issues.

 

Minor Glyphs

Glyph of Lay on Hands - A big increase to LoH mana for a minor glyph, use this one.

Glyph of the Wise - Great Glyph to use with Glyph of SoW. Saves the cost of approximately 1 FoL per cast.

Glyph of Blessing of Kings - If you have Kings, this makes your life easier, and there is no better 3rd minor for raids.

 

VI. Consumables

 

Potions

While you can only use 1 per fight now, you do have some choice about which that will be.

 

Runic Mana Potion - The good old bland mana potion. Thankfully they also greatly reduced the range of mana restored.

Potion of Nightmares - This got changed from its former brethren, so that it lasts 6 seconds and is no longer dispellable. Can definetly see being able to use this easily in many fights for the extra 1200 mana over Runic. I will carry a stock of both of these along with me.

Potion of Speed - This could be useful in some fights if you know there will be 15 seconds where you will need to totally maximize output.

Potion of Wild Magic - Same idea as Potion of Speed, but I don't see any reason to use this one over a Potion of Speed though.

 

Well Fed

These are the 4 relevant different buff types, but you can get different food that give the same benefit. Just chose them how you would your gems.

 

Firecracker Salmon

Imperial Manta Steak

Mighty Rhino Dogs

Spiced Wyrm Burger

 

Flasks

 

Flask of the Frost Wyrm - A solid throughput increase, my flask of choice for WotLK.

Flask of Pure Mojo - With how poorly Mp5 has scaled to WotLK content I don't see any reason to use this over Frost Wyrm.

Flask of Distilled Wisdom - Sadly this flask from Vanilla WoW is still half decent. I wouldn't use it over Frost Wyrm though.

 

Elixirs

 

Spellpower Elixir

Elixir of Deadly Strikes

Elixir of Lightning Speed

 

Elixir of Mighty Thoughts

Elixir of Might Mageblood

 

Spellpower/Mighty Thoughts could beat out Frost Wyrm (67 SP vs 45 Int), but is more expensive to keep up while learning a boss.

 

Retribution

Skjul

Introduction

I like to keep things brief and to the point, however on these boards that is not always possible. Here goes...

 

You are here because you probably play a paladin, and are interested in / already playing the retribution spec. Retribution is a melee DPS spec (duh) that happens to use both melee and spells to deal high amounts of direct damage - we are often compared side by side to enhancement shaman and blood death knights. In addition to our now respectable DPS, retribution offers some fantastic raid buffs:

3% crit to raid

3% all damage to raid

3% haste to raid

100% JoW uptime

Replenishment to 10 raid members

Blessing of Kings / Imp Blessing of Might

 

Retribution in Wrath (like most classes and specs) is pretty easy to pick up and play, but somewhat difficult to master; hopefully this thread and its' contributing posters will make it slightly easier to understand, for both new and veteran paladins alike. This thread will mainly focus on our core mechanics, and not so much on gearing or rotations/playstyles (though these will be touched on). This thread also assumes you have basic knowledge of paladins and their talent trees.

 

Before we start though, thanks to the many many posters on these forums who provide a ton of data and testing, and special thanks to Cathela for creating and maintaining the beta thread. Also thanks to EJ and wowhead for hosting all this stuff, so that we don't have to answer hundreds of tells a day!

 

FAQ's

Q: What item is better for me, X or Y?

A: Any gear upgrades are largely dependent on your current gear setup, thus I encourage you to use Rawr to find suitable upgrades.

 

Q: Is there a tool to calculate my DPS using a certain gear/spec setup?

A: Yes, Redcape's Calculator, and Bellator's spreadsheet (updated by Exemplar) which much like this thread will improve in accuracy with time.

 

Q: What seal for PvE? And for PvP?

A: Blood/Martyr for PvE, Command for PvP.

 

Q: What does weapon speed do to us? Do we want slow or fast?

A: Slow. Every .1 speed slower is equal to ~30 DPS due to SoB not being normalized; so given a choice between a 3.4 203 dps 2h and a 3.8 203 dps 2h, the 3.8 would win.

 

Q: What weapon enchant?

A: Scroll down to the enchant section, it explains berserking a bit more...

 

 

Acronyms/Shortforms

Totally stealing this from the holy paladin thread.

 

GCD = Global Cooldown

SoB = Seal of Blood

SoM = Seal of the Martyr

SoC = Seal of Command

JoW = Judgement of Wisdom

JoL = Judgement of Light

JoJ = Judgement of Justice

DS = Divine Storm

CS = Crusader Strike

AW = Avenging Wrath

Sheath = Sheath of Light

RV = Righteous Vengeance

AoW = Art of War

JotW = Judgements of the Wise

E4E = Eye for an Eye

PoJ = Pursuit of Justice

BoM = Blessing of Might

BoK = Blessing of Kings

HoJ = Hammer of Justice

AP = Attack Power

STR = Strength

INT = Intellect

AGI = Agility

CRIT = Critical Strike (rating)

ArP = Armor Penetration

ppm = proc per minute

 

 

Upcoming Changes

Ver 3.1.0

 

* Blessing of Kings – this spell is now a base ability trainable by all paladins.

* Exorcism – this spell now causes damage to all types of enemy targets. However, it always critical strikes undead or demon targets. This change should make sure paladin damage doesn’t drop when going from Naxxramas to later tiers of content.

* Shield of the Templar now causes your Avenger’s Shield and Shield of the Righteousness to silence targets for 3 sec. The old damage bonus of this talent has been folded into Holy Shield, Avenger’s Shield, and Shield of the Righteousness.

* Ardent Defender, Improved Hammer of Justice, One-Handed Weapon Specialization and more have had their ranks reduced.

* Guarded by the Light – no longer reduces the mana cost of shield spells, but now has a 50/100% chance to refresh Divine Plea duration.

* Judgements of the Just – now also reduces the cooldown of Hammer of Justice by 10/20 seconds and increases the duration of the Seal of Justice stun effect by 0.5/1 second.

 

 

Observations

Adding this section to clarify some things regarding hits, crits, and expertise. Also a warning, this section will probably change over time as we get more accurate data sampling.

 

Much of this section is thanks Retesting hit table assumptions . The people in that thread have solid math, and Vulajin has provided pretty solid evidence of these theories (40000+ swings!)

Current theories:

You now need 8%, not the BC 9%, to be 2H melee hitcapped vs skull level mobs (bosses).

You (still) need 26 expertise (6.50%) to be expertise capped, not the 6.25% reported lately.

All melee classes seem to suffer a 4.8% crit suppression vs skull mobs; this means that your melee critrate will be on average 1.8% lower than your character sheet implies (HotC covers 3% of this, procs from librams and such not accounted for).

The spell hit cap is still 17% - the only skills we have that are affected by this are exorcism, holy wrath, and the first tick of consecrate - so this is of little importance to us.

 

 

The Basic Rotation

During the beta it was agreed upon that because of vastly changed mechanics, our rotations should be thrown out and thus came to be known as FCFS (First Come First Serve). Not much to explain about it, just use whatever is off cooldown, whenever you can (watch your mana bar). Your only priority (should multiple skills come off cooldown at the same time) is Judgement, as it provides both our best DPS and our main source of mana. On a target under 20%, Hammer of Wrath also comes into play, right behind Judgement in priority due to its' very high crit rate. Be sure to use AW and Divine Plea as much as you can, as both provide a nice boost in damage/mana. In a situation with AoE, say trash for example, Consecration and DS should be prioritized.

 

The reasoning behind FCFS courtesy Avitus:

There are two elements to our "rotation": FCFS and clash resolution

 

FCFS: Was chosen very simply due to the fact that due to the cooldowns our abilities have, you can't repeat any reliable short term pattern (for example: "1" "1" "1" "3", repeat) that would maximize DPS. The only patterns that repeat are several minutes long (containing several dozen of casts) and therefore not realistic to offer as a "rotation". Therefore FCFS is the only way to go.

 

Clash resolution: It was argued back and forth what the optimum way to resolve a clash of two abilities coming out of cooldown at the same time, the result was "highest DPS first": Judgement > CS > Consecration > DS > Exorcism > Holy Wrath

 

 

Stats (In order of importance)

Strength

Our best DPS stat, as we have various talents that multiply it's effect. 1 STR gives you 2 AP baseline, multiplied by 1.15 from Divine Strength (Tier 1 Prot) giving us 2.3 AP per STR when specced. This number is further affected by buffs such as BoK. You should be stacking as much STR as possible via gemming and so on.

 

Hit See Observations

32.8 rating gives you 1% hit. At level 80, we require 263 hit rating, or 8%, to be hit capped on white swings, specials, and judgements. Note that Exorcism and Consecration are considered spells and use the spell hit table, thus we can still miss with these abilities. You want to be hit capped to maximize (and stabilize) your DPS, but any hit after the cap is wasted itemization points, so gear accordingly. Please note that with current gear itemization, hit capping is very difficult and it is generally better to have a healthy balance of stats. Generally you should not gem/enchant for hit.

 

Expertise

Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to remove dodges from the attack table when attacking from behind, as melee often does! You need 26 Expertise (214 rating, 6.5%) to cap this stat; much like hit, any expertise after the cap is wasted. Capping this stat is a significant dps increase vs uncapped (or none at all) as it affects our whites, strikes, and SoB. Similar to hit, capping this is extremely difficult to do without gimping your other stats given current itemization.

 

Crit See Observations

We are quite reliant on critical strikes to do damage. You can never really have too much crit, but it is not worth gemming for it, gem for STR instead. You need 45.9 crit rating to gain 1% crit at 80. This stat gains no benefits from raid buffs, but you get more per itemization point from crit than you do AGI. This stat also increases your spell crit rating, making it flat out superior to AGI.

 

Agility

We need 52.08 agility to gain 1% melee crit. Like stated before, crit is flat out better, however AGI does scale with raid buffs such as BoK where crit does not.

 

Attack Power

AP is somewhere in the middle of the pack as far as stats go; most of our skills scale off AP, but STR is just so much better. AP isn't really seen on plate (so you often don't have to worry about this) but you will run into it if you dip into leather and mail. Note that despite AP having a 2:1 item stat budget, it is far weaker than STR as we have no talents that boost it's effect. When comparing or considering pieces with AP, you need to look at the item as a whole (does the plate have haste and ArPen (bad), while the the leather has AP/hit/crit/agi (decent) ).

 

Intellect

Due to some mechanic changes late in 3.0, intellect has once again become somewhat useful to retribution. 1 INT gives you 15 mana and a negligible amount of spell crit. It has become useful because of the way Replenishment and JoW work, which returns mana per second based on your TOTAL mana pool. In an upcoming patch (3.0.8), JoW will return base mana only, but Replenishment will function the same. Once again, don't bother gemming or going out of your way to find INT, but don't turn your nose at certain hunter/enh shaman mail either.

 

Haste

Was great (for horde) in late BC, but due to huge mechanic changes regarding our seals and instant attacks, haste went from scaling equally with STR to the "meh" it is now. Haste increases white damage and SoB/SoM damage by giving you a few more attacks against a boss; haste does NOT decrease the GCD on our instant strikes or instant spells. You will find plenty of it on our sets and pieces, but it sure isn't something you want to enchant or gem for. You need 32.7 haste rating to gain 1% haste at 80.

 

Armor Penetration

Bad stat for retribution - over 60% of our damage is holy, which ignores armor anyways. 15.4 rating gives you 1% armor piercing; unlike BC, you can no longer fully ignore boss or player armor via this stat. ArPen does NOT increase damage done by seals, just white damage, CS and DS. Avoid this stat.

 

Spellpower

Bad stat for us. Spellpower increases some of our skills' coefficients, but at a rate much slower than STR/AP, and does nothing for our white damage and instant melee strikes - CS and DS gain nothing from spellpower. Avoid this stat (easy to do, since none of our ret gear has spellpower).

 

Stamina, Armor

Ultimately, stam does nothing more than keep you alive in situations where there is raid damage, and in wrath there is a lot of raid damage. Most of the damage is magic (not mitigated by armor) therefor armor class does not matter to us, as we have no Armored to the Teeth talents like warriors or deathknights. You'll find all the stam you need and much much more on all wrath gear.

 

 

Mechanics(Quirky!)

Several mechanics have changed since BC, most notably the Seal and Judgement systems.

 

The following scale off of both AP and Spellpower, at varying ratios (would someone care to fill me in on these?) -

Judgements

Seals

Consecration

Exorcism

Holy Wrath

Hammer of Wrath

Our healing spells scale strictly off of Spellpower.

 

In addition to seals scaling from both AP and SP, ALL seals can now be triggered from our instant melee attacks, DS and CS. I'll cover the specific seals a bit further down.

 

Skill mechanic breakdowns

 

ALL Judgements should be considered as ranged physical attacks, which can miss or crit but cannot be resisted, parried, or dodged. Some game data mining reveals that judgements are actually melee attacks that have been modified to be immune to parries and dodges, yet they have a 10 yard range and cannot be used while silenced.... don't you just love paladins?

 

Judgement of Wisdom

JoW is your primary nuke. It simultaneously does a large amount of unmitigated damage, puts Judgement of Wisdom on your target, and returns mana to you and your raid via JotW and Replenishment. This currently returns 2% of an attackers' BASE mana. Because this was changed from 1% total mana, you want to ensure near 100% uptime for your mana-using dps, or they can run into mana troubles.

 

Judgement of Light

Same thing as JoW, but applies Judgement of Light to your target. This spell scales off both AP and SP. You might want to use this judgement on bosses with heavy raid damage (ala Sapphiron); you may also want to use this judgement if you have a protection paladin raiding with you, as he can get 90% JoW uptime and your JoL will be much stronger. JoL no longer gives the judging paladin threat (used to be based on all healing done from the debuff).

 

Judgement of Justice

This is your judgement of choice in pvp situations, as all the debuff does is limit movement speed to 100%. This is not considered a movement impairing effect, so freedom or druid shifting will not break it, it can only be pvp trinketed or dispelled.

 

Seals scale off AP and Spellpower. Judging a seal no longer consumes the seal, seals have a 2 minute duration. Seals are NOT considered weapon imbues, and can still be dispelled unless you have the Sanctified Seals talent. Seals now trigger off instant attacks (DS and CS).

 

Seal of Blood/Seal of Martyr

This is your seal to use in PvE. It is capable of criticals, it also follows the melee hit table and thus is prone to dodges and parries, making expertise very valuable to us. It scales off your weapon damage. The recoil damage received by using this seal is negligible, however the recoil from judging this seal is nothing to sneeze at. The recoil damage from judging is also necessary to our sustainability (mana from Spiritual Attunement).

 

Seal of Command

This is your PvP seal. It is also capable of criticals, but unlike SoB it does not trigger on every attack. SoC has an assumed base ppm of 7, and a ppm of 8.4 with the SoC glyph. This seal has an internal cooldown of 1 second, which means you won't see double procs. SoC was subject to huge changes:

- its' ppm is now affected by / scales with haste

- judging this seal on a stunned target is now a guaranteed critical judgement (changed from double damage)

- judging with SoC active can no longer be resisted

- judging can trigger a SoC proc, it is the only seal that behaves in this manner

 

Seal of Righteousness

This seal should not be used as retribution, however I included it to settle why it shouldn't be used. This seal cannot miss (unless your white swing misses), however it is incapable of criticals. There has been plenty of math recently showing that even with 5/5 Seals of the Pure, SoB is still superior in damage.

 

These spells are used in the retribution skill rotation.

 

Consecration

Widely viewed as a necessary part of the retribution rotation, as our DPS is not very competitive without it. It is highly recommended that you use the consecration glyph. Should be used against both single and multiple targets. Consecration has some odd behavior on skull level mobs; the first tick can be fully resisted (miss) and subsequent ticks can also be partially resisted (due to mob level difference). You cannot work around the partial resists at all, but they are often small enough to not matter:

Originally Posted by http://elitistjerks.com/1052225-post672.html

I tested this situation while wearing a massive amount of + hit (22% spell hit or so) and things didn't change noticeably. There simply were only 4 combat log entries most of the time, something like:

 

Boss is afflicted by your Consecration

Boss takes 20 Damage from your Consecration (60 resisted)

Boss takes 30 Damage from your Consecration (50 resisted)

Consecration fades from Boss

 

Sometimes I got 4 ticks, sometimes 1, but against a +13 level mob I never got anywhere near 8. There simply weren't entries in the log for those other ticks. I won't claim to know the precise mechanics of this, but it does seem evident that mobs can totally resist Consecration ticks if they are high enough level in addition to the debuff application that we are all so familiar with. I don't actually have a paladin that can test this anymore since I did it just after 3.0 launched against the level 83 dummy and my level 80 paladin has no way to fight a level 93 mob.

 

Hammer of Wrath

With the release of 3.0, this skill was buffed a substantial amount, to the point where it is used on cooldown vs targets under 20% health (due to deep ret talents that give this skill a 50% base crit chance, in addition to gear). It is now an instant ranged execute, but retains its' fixed mana cost. Using this skill does not reset your swing timer anymore.

 

Exorcism

Decent damage to a single target, can crit (based on your spell crit). It uses the spell hit table so it will miss a fair amount. Only works on demons and undead.

 

Holy Wrath

Also uses the spell hit tables, can crit. Has no target limit so it is VERY useful on certain fights with many undead/demon adds. Changed from a 60s cooldown/20yd range (BC) to a 30s cooldown/10yd range, and it now stuns all targets that it hits for 2s.

 

Divine Plea

You will need to use this to keep your mana up in both PvE and PvP. It scales off your total mana pool.

 

And of course, our talented instant attacks:

 

Divine Storm

Our 51 pt talent, it is basically the same as a warrior's whirlwind ability except that DS heals for negligible amounts. Despite it seeming like an underwhelming talent it is critical to our DPS as it can and will trigger seals. This skill is normalized to 3.3 weapon speed.

 

Crusader Strike

Our still very bland 41 pt talent, yet still crucial to our DPS as it also triggers seals. CS no longer refreshes your or any other paladins' judgements. This skill is also normalized (to 3.3).

 

 

Special Talents and their ..."specialness"

This is just to cover some talents that have odd quirks or interesting functionality.

 

Art of War

There has been much debate since the beta a few months ago, but it appears that using instant heals from AoW does reset your swing timer as of 3.0.2. Avoid using this in raiding situations

 

Righteous Vengeance

Once again stealing from the warriors! The RV dot does indeed "roll" like the warrior version, meaning critical judgements and DS's in succession will refresh the dot duration, not overwrite it. The RV dot is a magic effect and thus dispellable, can be partially resisted by bosses, but is not mitigated by armor.

How RV rolls courtesy Redcape:

It adds the new critical damage onto any remaining damage in the dot and then resets the duration with the new damage total. There is absolutely no need to maintain the stack in any fashion, the stack falling off does not cause you to lose dps.

 

Sheath of Light

One of our most exciting talents for wrath. This talent helps to increase our damage because of the way we double-dip in AP and SP, gives retribution paladins heals actually worth casting/using, and makes STR that much more important.

 

Talent Specs

 

Your basic PvE talent spec will look like THIS. You have some wiggle room with the remaining 5 talent points; I personally do not take Imp Might because I buff Kings.

 

A PvP talent spec looks more along the lines of THIS. RV isn't taken because it is dispellable and generally doesn't provide much burst damage, which is our specialty. What you do with the leftover 2 points is up to you (perhaps one point in RV as a cover debuff/anti-stealth dot), and again this is only a guide.

 

 

Glyphs, Gems, Consumables, Enchants, Professions

I won't mention horrible glyphs, because they are horrible! Some glyphs such as the SA glyph are of debatable use, and there are (slightly) better uses for the slots, so they are also left out.

 

Recommended Major Glyphs

[Glyph of Judgement]

This is your primary glyph as retribution. If you can't see why 10% more damage to our best nuke is good, you should get your head checked out. Used in both PvE and PvP.

 

[Glyph of Consecration]

This is a PvE glyph, it saves a ton of mana and some GCD clashes over the course of a fight (worth 108mp5). You should use this as your second major.

 

[Glyph of Avenging Wrath]

A somewhat interesting PvE glyph. Effectively gives you 50% more Hammer of Wrath damage, but it is pretty conditional - it requires you being able to use Hammer of Wrath (so it is only really useful on bosses), that you have AW ready to use, and that you have enough mana to dump on HoW.

 

[Glyph of Hammer of Wrath]

Similar to the AW glyph above, it is situational and interesting. Instead of doubling HoW casts, this glyph make Hammer of Wrath cost no mana. Currently, it isn't worth using both HoW glyphs together, as judgement and consecrate glyphs are integral to ret pve. Could be useful if you have mana problems on bosses below 20%...

 

[Glyph of Crusader Strike]

This is only mildly useful in PvP, it is more of a PvE glyph. Not particularly useful or interesting..

 

[Glyph of Divinity]

When used in combination with [Glyph of Lay on Hands], using Lay on Hands on anyone will grant both of you 2340 mana, or will give you 4680 mana if you use it on yourself. Situational pve glyph, but realistically LoH should be available to you every other boss encounter, so it is definitely an option.

 

[Glyph of Seal of Command]

PvP glyph. Increases the ppm of SoC from 7 to 8.4.

 

Recommended Minor Glyphs

[Glyph of Sense Undead]

1% damage to undead, in an expansion filled with undead mobs. PvE glyph.

 

[Glyph of Lay on Hands]

This ups the mana returned by Lay on Hands from 1950 to 2340. PvE glyph, taken for lack of better glyphs.

 

Honestly, the other four minor glyphs are your choice for the last minor slot. They aren't particularly useful in pve or pvp situations, but they can save you a reagent here and there.

 

Recommended Gems

Sometimes you will have to ignore socket bonuses because they are terrible! This is more a guide for when you want to meet such requirements. Also note that as of 3.0.8 epic cuts are unavailable.

 

Metas:

 

[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]

This is the preferred meta, simply because of fairly easy gem requirements. You do lose between .5 and 1 DPS between this and the following gem, but you gain more DPS by not using 2 blue gems.

 

[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond]

If you are a jewelcrafter, use this gem and put prismatic gems in your blue slots. If you are not a JC, use the one above.

 

 

Red slots:

Yum STR. If you do not wish to meet socket bonuses or requirements, you will be using these wherever you can.

[bold Cardinal Ruby]

[bold Scarlet Ruby]

[Perfect Bold Bloodstone]

 

Yellow slots:

[Etched Flawless Ametrine]

[inscribed Flawless Ametrine]

[Etched Monarch Topaz]

[inscribed Monarch Topaz]

 

Blue slots:

[Enchanted Tear] < You may only use one of these, but one is all you need to meet the meta req!

If you can't find one of those, you can also use-

[sovereign Dreadstone]

[sovereign Twilight Opal]

 

 

Professions

The quick and dirty of it is, if you are min-maxing every point you can get, Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting is the strongest combo for ret (both pve and pvp). Tailoring and the gathering professions are the weakest.

 

Courtesy of frmorrison:

BS: 101 AP (extra 2x20 str sockets)

JC: 86 AP (3x27 str gems vs 3x20 str gems + no need for blue gem for meta, so extra 10 str)

LW: 76 AP (Bracer enchant)

Enchanting: 64 AP (2x ring enchants)

Inscription: 64 AP (Shoulder enchant + no need to do Sons dailies for a month)

Alchemy: 64 AP (Using 180 AP Flask + 2 more hours on flasks)

Skinning: 25 Crit Rating (buffed very slightly in 3.0.8, still sucks)

Herbalism: Ability to use Fire Seeds as a consumable (removed in 3.0.8)

Tailoring has melee proc on the cloak at the expense of 22 agility

 

Since 20 str gems are not available yet, JC benefit is slightly stronger now (27 str vs 16 str).

 

Enchants

As abyss crystals eventually fall in price you'll want to use the better versions; for now I will also include the cheaper alternatives. Bolded enchants are what you should be using at endgame levels (the good/expensive stuff).

 

Head: [Arcanum of Torment]

Shoulders: [Greater Inscription of the Axe] / [Lesser Inscription of the Axe]

Chest: Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats / Enchant Chest - Super Stats

Cloak: [scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Agility]

Bracers: Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault / Enchant Bracers - Striking /

Hands: Enchant Gloves - Crusher / Enchant Gloves - Precision (if hit is a problem) / Enchant Gloves - Strength (BC enchant)

Legs: [icescale Leg Armor]

Feet: Enchant Boots - Icewalker (unless you are way over hitcap, use this) / Enchant Boots - Greater Assault

Weapon: Enchant Weapon - Berserking / Enchant 2H Weapon - Massacre / Enchant 2H Weapon - Greater Savagery

 

How berserking works: Berserking is a ppm based proc, similar to mongoose (1.2 ppm) - in a raid environment it has a ~35% uptime. It can only trigger off attacks flagged as melee attacks and melee specials (Judgements, CS, DS, white swings). Napkin math shows that in a scenario with a 35% uptime, the enchant is worth ~135AP on average, and up to/more than ~250AP if RNG favors you - in both normal and lucky cases, it is clearly the superior pve weapon enchant. The armor reduction debuff has also been reduced to 5% (from 25%) making this enchant superior for pvp as well.

 

Consumables

Flasks and elixirs:

[Flask of Endless Rage] / [Flask of Relentless Assault]

[Elixir of Mighty Strength]

[Elixir of Mighty Thoughts] / [Elixir of Mighty Mageblood]

 

Food:

More interesting choices this time around - you have traditional STR food, in addition to some new foods that actually support our double-dipping into AP/SP. Dragonfin and Fish Feast are roughly equivalent, but the dragonfin is usually cheaper:

[Dragonfin Filet]

[Fish Feast]

[Dalaran Clam Chowder]

[Great Feast]

 

Potions:

With the removal of chain-chugging and limit to once per fight, our only real option is:

[Runic Mana Potion]

 

Tier Gear

So is looking like voltron really worth it? Let's take a quick look.

 

Maths, skip if you don't care how these conclusions were formed

WITH 4pc bonus, raid buffed -

Fight lasts 4 minutes (240 seconds):

- 34 judgements (as opposed to 30 without 4pc)

- 2638 extra mana from JotW

(2638 / 240) x 5 = 55, so 55 mp5

- 7800 average judgement damage

70% assumed critrate

4600 - 9200 damage range on judgements

- 31200 more damage from judgements

 

Tier 7 2pc: 10% damage to DS

This only boosts the damage done by DS itself, not the seal it triggers, making it a 110% weapon strike with the bonus. Since DS accounts for ~10% of a paladin's average damage, we can say that 2pc T7 grants you a 1% damage increase.

 

Tier 7 4pc: -1s cooldown on judgements

Since judgements now account for ~25% of our total damage (and the majority of our mana income), we can say that 4pc T7 grants you a 3% damage incease, in addition to 55mp5.

 

After about 2 months of raid testing and comparisons, it appears that it is in your best interest to use 4pc - despite the fact that it uses several weaker pieces than offset items would offer, the ~4% increased dps and 55mp5 (which allows heavy usage of consecrate without mana issues) are worth it. Note that as you do more dps, the 4% damage gain scales with you; so a paladin doing an average of 3000 dps would see a ~120 dps boost, but a paladin in topend gear doing 5000 dps would see a 200 dps boost.

 

Protection

 

(Hadde ikke plass til spoiler. :<)

Endret 8. februar 2009 av Lycantrophe

[bear^_InnleggNO]

Kan du poste BB kodet utgave Lycan? Gjør det lettere å poste i førstepost.

[Lycantrophe]

PM sendt.

[Lycantrophe]

Legg til denne under ordbok og Retribution:

 

Seal of Command - SoC - PvP/leveling-seal. Gir alle angrep en sjangse (7ppm, 8,4 med Glyph) til å procce sealet som gjør 70% av weapon damage som holy. Judges for snasen damage, 100% critical chance om targetet er stunnet eller incapacitated (Gouge/sap/repentance). Relativt svak til pve grunnet dårlig scaling og en judge langt dårligere enn Blood.

[Ra1dMaX_InnleggNO]

er i happymood nå KT droppa betrayer of humanty og jeg vant rollen på den etter noe regemming og enchants skal jeg være på 3493 AP 270 hit og ca 35% crit