Holocaust - fakta eller fiksjon? (Les reglene i førstepost)

[Bidalaka]

å blindt akseptere at 6 millioner jøder døde under omstendigheter som er svært upratiske og usannsynlige.

 

Det er ingen her som blindt aksepterer dette. Jeg aksepterer det fordi jeg har sett haugen av bevis i favør av det, og ingenting fra den andre siden som berger seg gjennom det minste kritiske blikk. Leser man denne tråden ser man at -benektersiden- er de som bare hiver ut påstander dokumentasjonsløst og forventer at det skal blindt godtas.

 

Takk for forsøket. Bedre lykke neste gang.

[RoaldN]

å blindt akseptere at 6 millioner jøder døde under omstendigheter som er svært upratiske og usannsynlige.

 

Det er ingen her som blindt aksepterer dette. Jeg aksepterer det fordi jeg har sett haugen av bevis i favør av det, og ingenting fra den andre siden som berger seg gjennom det minste kritiske blikk. Leser man denne tråden ser man at -benektersiden- er de som bare hiver ut påstander dokumentasjonsløst og forventer at det skal blindt godtas.

 

Takk for forsøket. Bedre lykke neste gang.

Dette er en løgn. Om man ikke hadde innført denne regelrette sensureringen av revisjonistisk materiell i form av bilder og video.. hvilket er en form for media som holokoret tydeligvis aldri har hørt om siden det ikke legges frem så ville du ha sett at det er langt i fra dokumentasjonsløst.

[Rampage]

Og så forsvant enda flere innlegg, de involverte er fullt klar over retningslinjene for tråden og når videoer forsvinner så forsvinner naturligvis også diskusjonen rundt fjernede innlegg. Ellers forsvant noen korte meningsløse innlegg samt modereringskommentering. Kommentarer tas som vanlig på PM.

[793]

Når det gjelder ditt "argument from personal incredulity", så synes jeg altså ikke at hva du mener er praktisk har stor betydning. Hutuene tok livet av 800 000 Tutsier på mindre enn tre måneder med macheter. Da synes jeg ikke å ta livet, og kvitte seg med et tilsvarende tall på et år i nasjonen der man har BMW, Porsche, Siemens osv er noe spesielt å henge seg opp i. Sonderaktion 1005 (slå det opp) holdt dessuten på lengre.

Det holder ikke mål. Her er det ikke kun snakk om å ta liv av over 800.000 mennesker, men den fullstendige forsvinnelsen av deres etterlevninger. Hvor er de enorme massegravene? Hvor er kremeringsovnene som kunne vært i stand til å utføre slike oppgaver?

 

Det at man starter en aggressiv angrepskrig uten noen krigserklæring først er vel neppe noe som taler til Tyskernes side, er det? Eller mener du seriøst at hvis Sovjet hadde satt i gang et overraskelsesangrep på Norge under den kalde krigen, og Nato hadde erklært Sovjet krig, så er det Nato som startet krigen?

Om Norge hadde stjålet enorme landområder fra Sovjetunionen og forfulgt og undertrykt den innfødte, sovjetiske befolkningen som fortsatt bodde der, hadde jeg regnet med at alle redelige Europeiske land hadde stilt seg på Sovjetunionens side. Dessverre, er NATO en manifestasjon av alt annet enn redelighet.

[RoaldN]

Slik fortoner også den offisielle myten seg.. nemlig den at levningene er fullstendig destruert, maskineriet til å utføre operasjonen også, og vi må bare akseptere at det ikke blir foretatt vitenskapelige undersøkelser for å eventuelt bekrefte/avkrefte.

[Gjest Slettet+127836]

 

793, begynn her:

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaskammern_und_Krematorien_der_Konzentrationslager_Auschwitz#Personenzahl

 

Der har du en artikkel på tysk (Ta den gjerne gjennom google translate), som gir deg oversikt over kapasitet i gasskamrene i Auschwitz/Birkenau komplekset. 8.696 pr gassing.

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaskammern_und_Krematorien_der_Konzentrationslager_Auschwitz#Leistungsf.C3.A4higkeit_der_Krematorien

 

Her er avsnittet om kapasitet til krematoriene både planlagt (3.450 lik pr døgn), gjennomsnittlig kapasitet over et døgn i 1943 (4.756, eller 4.416 ekskludert Auscwitz 1 (Stammlager)).

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaskammern_und_Krematorien_der_Konzentrationslager_Auschwitz#Gesamte_Kapazit.C3.A4t_der_Birkenauer_Krematorien_und_Gaskammern

 

Dette avsnittet viser en tabell over totalt antall døgn hvert krematorie ble utnyttet og kapasitet over tid (til sammen 2.555.904).

 

Hvis du ønsker seriøs informasjon så anbefaler jeg deg å lete opp disse bøkene:

 

Jean-Claude Pressac: Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1989

Jean-Claude Pressac: Die Krematorien von Auschwitz. Die Technik des Massenmordes. Piper-Verlag, Neuausgabe München 1995, ISBN 3-492-12193-4

Robert-Jan van Pelt: The Case for Auschwitz. Indiana University Press, Bloomington 2002, ISBN 0-253-34016-0

Fritz Bauer Institut und Staatliches Museum Auschwitz-Birkenau (Hrsg.): Der Auschwitz-Prozeß, Tonbandmitschnitte, Protokolle und Dokumente. Digitale Bibliothek, Band 101

Annegret Schüle: Technik ohne Moral, Geschäft ohne Verantwortung. In: Irmtrud Wojak / Susanne Meinl (Hrsg.): Im Labyrinth der Schuld. Campus Verlag, Frankfurt am Main, 2003, ISBN 3-593-37373-4, S. 199 - 229

Danuta Czech: Kalendarium der Ereignisse im Konzentrationslager Auschwitz-Birkenau 1939–1945., Rowohlt Verlag, 1989, ISBN 3-498-00884-6

Stiftung Gedenkstätten Buchenwald und Mittelbau-Dora, Volkhard Knigge (Hrsg.): Techniker der "Endlösung" Topf & Söhne - Die Ofenbauer von Auschwitz.Weimar, 2005, ISBN 3-935598-10-6 (Begleitband zur Ausstellung)

Eric Friedler, Barbara Siebert, Andreas Kilian: Zeugen aus der Todeszone - das jüdische Sonderkommando in Auschwitz, DTV, 2005, ISBN 3-423-34158-0

Eugen Kogon, Hermann Langbein, Adalbert Rückerl (Hrsg.): Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas. Fischer Verlag, Frankfurt, 1983, ISBN 3-10-040402-5

Shlomo Venezia: Meine Arbeit im Sonderkommando Auschwitz. Blessing-Verlag: München 2008

[Gjest Slettet+127836]

Og hvis mer informasjon er ønskelig kan jeg godt vise til denne posten jeg tok meg tid til å opprette tidligere i en annen tråd:

 

https://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1297511&view=findpost&p=17025882

 

i spoiler er kildelisten jeg hostet opp.

 

 

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[793]

*

Takk. Skal prøve å få lest gjennom det når jeg tid.

 

Bare et kort sidespørsmål;

Hvorfor pstås det kun å ha finnes gasskamre (for gassing av mennesker) i de leirene som befinner seg innenfor områdene som ble okkupert av Sovjetunionen etter andre verdenskrig? Tyder det på at disse gasskamrene kun var et propaganda-stunt fra Sovjetunionens side, som brukte mye tid og krefter på å demonisere tyskerne og nasjonalsosialismen, mens leirene i de vestlige delene av Tyskland var åpne for 'allmennheten' (presse og internasjonale organisasjoner, som Røde Kors) helt fra krigens slutt, og at det dermed aldri var mulig å fabrikere indisier som pekte mot eksistensen av gasskamre ment for mennesker i disse leirene?

[Gjest Slettet+9871234]

... kun var et propaganda-stunt fra Sovjetunionens side, som brukte mye tid og krefter på å demonisere tyskerne og nasjonalsosialismen, ...

Det greidde vel Tyskerne godt selv og jeg min mor fortalte historier fra krigen i Norge om hvordan tyskeren masjerte i gatene og sang nazi propaganda sanger om "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, Über alles in der Welt".

 

På soldatenes beltespenner sto det:

 

Gott mit uns.

 

Josef Mengele, større kvasi vitenskapelig bløffmaker har vel verden aldri sett hverken før eller siden.

Endret 31. desember 2011 av Slettet+9871234

[Bidalaka]

*

Takk. Skal prøve å få lest gjennom det når jeg tid.

 

Bare et kort sidespørsmål;

Hvorfor pstås det kun å ha finnes gasskamre (for gassing av mennesker) i de leirene som befinner seg innenfor områdene som ble okkupert av Sovjetunionen etter andre verdenskrig? Tyder det på at disse gasskamrene kun var et propaganda-stunt fra Sovjetunionens side, som brukte mye tid og krefter på å demonisere tyskerne og nasjonalsosialismen, mens leirene i de vestlige delene av Tyskland var åpne for 'allmennheten' (presse og internasjonale organisasjoner, som Røde Kors) helt fra krigens slutt, og at det dermed aldri var mulig å fabrikere indisier som pekte mot eksistensen av gasskamre ment for mennesker i disse leirene?

 

Nei. det det tyder på er at det var i Polen det store antallet Jøder befant seg. Reinhardleirene for eksempel, var lagt der de var pga geografisk og praktisk nærhet, togmessig til hver sin store ghetto. Å ha dødsleire i Tyskland, og frakte dem dit ville vært upraktisk. Dessuten var Tyskerene godt klare over at det de gjorde var uakseptabelt, til og med innad i Tyskland, og de hadde ikke behov for å ha tyske sivile tråkkende rundt dødsleirene sine.

 

Hadde dette vært et Sovjetisk påfunn tror jeg kanskje etterkrigs-Tyskland ville protestert en smule, men snodig nok, det har de aldri gjort.

Endret 31. desember 2011 av Bidalaka

[Bidalaka]

 

Dette er en løgn. Om man ikke hadde innført denne regelrette sensureringen av revisjonistisk materiell i form av bilder og video.. hvilket er en form for media som holokoret tydeligvis aldri har hørt om siden det ikke legges frem så ville du ha sett at det er langt i fra dokumentasjonsløst.

 

Det å kreve et sammendrag av den videoen som postes er neppe sensur er det? Det er ikke rakettkirurgi å krote ned et avsnitt for å vise at du faktisk har sett det du forventer at andre skal se. Etter 90 sider skulle man tro at det budskapet sank inn, men det er tydelig at du lært av offerpolitisk talsmann i FrP hvordan du skal te deg.

 

Dessuten er det fortsatt dokumentasjonsløst når de videoene som står igjen er så hjelpesløst svake når det gjelder historikk, kjemi, fysikk osv. Jeg har jo tidligere tatt for meg Judea declares War on Germany som du ivret for, og det er utrolig at dere tør å lene dere på noe så latterlig. One Third of the Holocaust er jo en annen "vinner."

[Henry_Himmler]

Josef Mengele, større kvasi vitenskapelig bløffmaker har vel verden aldri sett hverken før eller siden.

 

Javel, ja. Kan du si noe mer om dette? Når du sier "bløffmaker" kommer jeg personlig liksom mer til å tenke på jødene og deres mange absurde historier om hva som foregikk i og utenfor tyske konsentrasjonsleirer i andre verdenskrig. Såpe, lampeskjermer, dampkoking, elektriske gulv, kiling til døds av homofile, uttrekking av millioner av tenner, hårsamling og hårsortering på spesielle loft, denging til døds av babyer, madrasser av jødehår osv.

 

Men, for all del: Fortell oss om hvorfor Dr. Mengele var en "kvasi-vitenskapelig bløffmaker." Alltid greit å lære nye ting.

Endret 1. januar 2012 av Henry_Himmler

[Shruggie]

Kiling til døde av homofile...?

For ordens skyld: Av de eksemplene har jeg bare hørt om uttrekking av gulltenner, og det vet vi skjedde. Lampeskjermer og såper har jeg også hørt om, men det er rimelig sikkert at det er bullshit. Og ja, helt sikkert litt propagande involvert der; jødene er ingen fans av naziene. Men de andre? Hva faen?

Endret 1. januar 2012 av tofagerl

[Henry_Himmler]

Kiling til døde av homofile...?

 

The SS considered it great sport to taunt and torture the homosexuals. The camp commander at Flossenbürg often ordered them flogged; as the victims were screaming, he was panting with excitement, and masturbated wildly in his trousers until he came,' unperturbed by the hundreds of onlookers.

 

A sixty-year-old homosexual priest was beaten over his sexual organs by the SS and suffered severe hemorrhaging, he died the next day. Eyewitnesses tell of homosexuals being tortured to death by tickling, by having their testicles immersed alternately into hot and icy water, by having a broomstick pushed into their anus.

 

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/flossenburg.html

[Shruggie]

Dette har jo ingenting med noe å gjøre, men det må være en feiloversettelse eller noe. Torturert med kiling? Kanskje, men ser ikke på det som særlig grusomt. Drept MENS de ble kilt? Kanksje... Men å drepe noen med kiling er omtrent like trolig som at du er en helt ny bruker som aldri har postet under et annet navn før i tråden.

[Gjest Bruker-95147]

Ganske kinkig å bli så jæla kilt, jeg for min del liker å bli klødd - men ser ett visst problem med overdreven iver i kløingen, også ...

 

Kilt eller klødd til døde - nei, jeg vet faktisk ikke

[Henry_Himmler]

Kiling til døde er ingenting å le av.

[Shruggie]

Med kløing kan man jo før eller senere treffe en blodåre, men kiling? Nei, det er enten en vits eller en feiloversettelse.

[Gjest Bruker-95147]

hmm, vi skulle forsket litt på dette med "kiling" - jeg, for min del har veldig tro på seriøs kiling

[Henry_Himmler]

Bøtte-bænging var også en populær sport blant SS-gutta:

 

One way of tormenting Jews and homosexuals that the S.S. in the quarry were very fond of was to drive crazy prisoners who were already physically at the end of their tether. A man who had not done anything in particular would have a metal bucket placed over his head. Two men held him down, while the S.S. men and Capos banged on the bucket with their sticks.

 

The terrible noise amplified through the bucket soon brought the victim to such a pitch of terror that he completely lost his mind and his sense of balance was destroyed. Then the bucket was suddenly removed and he was pushed towards the wire fence. He could seldom right himself in time. And if he staggered inside the 5 meter zone, he was fired on in the usual way. "Games" such as these were a favorite pastime for some of the S.S. guards.