george85

It seem that this "northern odyssey" will have to wait a couple of years or so. I already started working on some space frame improvements, hopefully, next year will get a Phd course, and in 4-5 years, Norway here I come!

I owe you a beer, all of you. Although I heard that alcohol is quite expensive back there. Luckily I do not drink it at all!

Tusen takk!

20. januar 2011

Thank you for the tips Novikana.

By "informational interviews" you mean unsolicited interviews? Like unsolicited job application?

19. januar 2011

Fair enough.

Thank you for all the advices and replies.

16. januar 2011

So I do not see what benefit you would get from doing engineering work, instead of architect work.

I do both - architectural and part of the engineering one. Even if they do not need a person that will do the engineering one, still this thing has huge significance :

"Know the engineering limits and you'll see the architectural ones."

@ bas:

Thank you for such an encouraging advice.

Company of Snohetta is somewhat special in comparison to other Norwegian architectural companies. I heard the same thing about it’s “internationality”. Although I do not know if they do their paper work in English language?

Being the biggest Norwegian architectural company, enables them to work abroad, I guess until now, they had more valuable projects abroad than at home(I only presume, I am not sure). Maybe the problem lies with in this fact. The financial crisis struck the rest of the world pretty hard, but Norway defended herself pretty well. This means that Snohetta lost much of it’s prospective projects and customers around the globe.

Or am I wrong?

15. januar 2011

I don't think you got the point. I never said internship is real work. It's good to have internships under your belt, but you can't compare it to a proper architect job. I said that you only have one year of experience and it was an internshp

No. From all that amount of working experience, around 3 months of it, are an internships. Rest months are regular working experience (and this situation lasts to the present moment).

I may be wrong, but I don't see why doing work not that related to architecture will make your internship any better. Sure, you done some engineering work. But if an employer wants someone to do engineering work, they would hire an engineer, or use a contract. They want an architect, not an architect doing engineering work.

Architecture is an art, but also depends on science. You can not isolate the architectural work from the work of the structural engineer. In some rare cases, you can not do this with the water supply or sewage engineer, neither.

A wise man once said (translated to english, it looks something like this):

"A butterfly's wing is something amazingly beautiful, but also an engineering masterpiece.“

Know the engineering limits and you'll see the architectural ones.

14. januar 2011

@ Camlon:

I see you know nothing about architectural post studies internships at The Netherlands.

There is a huge difference between the "during studies" and "post studies" internships. At first ones, you get yourself a supervisor, mentor, who is always there for you each day, and checks your work. Second (my) type of internship is something completely different. You work as a regular indenpendent employee, there is no difference between you and the other employees. In fact this the only difference is that you get 320 euros, and they get 2000 euros. And they have a contract, and I do not.

On my internship at The Netherlands I did a light design and calculation of the main entrance porch, something that not many architects from Europe know how to do, because light calculation is not a job of an architect, it is a job of an electrical engineer.

I am currently working on the 600m2 both commercial and residential object. Except for the architectural work (if there is a chance to call it like that, due to all the savings in money), I am also calculating the construction of the object - beams, columns, lintels, slabs, foundations. Last year I created a project for the national exposition pavilion. And I also calculated and designed most of steel space frame Mero structure, along with its supports, anchors and foundations. In Europe (probably in rest of the world also, but I am certain that this is the case in Europe), and also in my country an architects do not do this kind of things, because they do not know how to do it - a structural engineer does it!.

I have also already designed and calculated the water supply pipes system and sewage system in the already mentioned 600m2 building. In my country, and probably in Europe also, a waste engineer does this kind of things, not an architect.

I am not going to participate in this topic anymore, as I feel insulted each time I read some of your posts. I though you are talking abstractly, generalizing your opinion.

But now I see you are constantly trying to send the "ball" to my side of the field, and one by one mention me, and connect me with "cheating".

11. januar 2011

understood.

I must agree with you on the last one Camlon. I felt insulted, and did not think rationally.

Thank you for an honest answer Kaarerekanraadi.

Thanks to all the help and advices.

10. januar 2011

Mentioning "cheating", even if you did not directly say "they did not know if YOU cheated or not", was not very polite from you Camlon.

You are still continuing to raise the tension in this topic, and there is no reason for that.

All the previous advices gave me an answer to my question. I understood everything, and gave thanks to every reply.

End of story.

10. januar 2011

I did not want to start a fight in here. I perfectly understood everything, and gave thanks to every reply. There is no reason for lifting up the tension.

About the "cheating" part of the story. Yes, I must admit, that this thing exist on faculties in my country. Now, I did not say that I cheated, but that there are people that cheat on their exams. Some say that this is because of the nation itself, some say that it is due to the poverty, and low wages of professors (so professors are taking money from the students, and giving them a positive marks in return).

From my point of view, the main reason is that getting an honest, fair and square degree on most of the public faculties is Serbia, is very difficult.

Each exam is consisted of two parts - part one is usually related to practical written tasks. Part two is theory, and comes usually 7 days after the part one. Although it can come sooner or later than this, depends. When you pass the first part, you proceed to the part two. If you fall down on the part two, then you have the right to take a try again in a month or so. If you fall down again, then you need to pass the first part again, and then the second one.

Now, there are professors who are not allowing this "2 times first part rule". They demand that the first part valids only 1 time. So each time you fall down on the second part, you get back to the beginning - from the first part.

You might ask yourself, why would anyone fall down so many times? Well, most of the exams embrace-demand one year or half year knowledge. Although I had one with 2 years knowledge, but this was an exception. This means that when you sit down to take an exam, you need to have all the knowledge from the last 6 months or one year in your head.

The criteria for passing the exams is mostly 2/3. This means that from 3 tasks or 3 questions, you need to have 2 ones correct. Still there are some exceptional professors who demand 3/3. This means you need to have 3 questions out of 3 in order to pass the exams. I had only one of these 3/3 to be honest.

The only things that are allowed on both parts are pencil, paper, rubber, ruler, calculator and similar. Books are not allowed, nor notebooks, nothing. In my primary school, the calculator was not allowed! You needed to do all by hand, even calculate the square roots! Although there are some exams where certain papers with charts and tables are allowed. For example a chart with the ratio of number of Steel bars to cross-sectional area of the bars.

If you consider all this things, and if you want to pass all your exams fair and square, with no cheating, then you do not have a private life during studies, all you do is study. There is a common joke about "studying and working" in Serbia. We always make laughts when watching American TV shows, how their students study university and work in the after time. In my country this is not possible. You simply do not have the time for that. You spend your summer, winter, Easter holidays in learning. If my exam date is in June, I need to start preparing it in March, in order to complete all the exercises and theory.

Now, you can work and study, but then you will study for 10-12 years. And you can start preparing the exam in June, but that also leads to studying 10-12 years.

To make it clear, I am not supporting this system and saying that it is the best. The system was invented in Russia, and some of eastern european countries still have it, Cuba and China also. This educational system is madness, and generally creates either splendid experts, or lunatics, or students that decide to pay for the exams or cheat, or students that abandon the faculties. For example, with all the cheatings and frauds and exams passed by paying, the ratio of students that get a degree (successfully finish their studies), and the ones that enlist/start/enter to the faculty is 1/3 on my faculty. Some other faculties like Electro engineering, or Pharmacy... have ratio of 1/5.

My generation was the last want to attend the faculties by this "old" system. One year after us, Bologna process was signed, and some new rules emerged, a lot of things were threw away, amount of needed knowledge shrank and so on. Also there are private faculties, and the situation is quite different at their place, as they work under the westerner educational systems.

Nevertheless like I said, I got the answer on my question, and I thank you on that.

7. januar 2011

thank you for such an honest reply.

Maybe I can try the other way - by doing a Phd study. I checked at AHO, and they said there will not be any new Phd studies this year. So the NTNU is the only one left, and they post the new Phd studies requests on their web site about this time of the year, January, February.

I already started working on some space frame improvements from the structural engineering point of view.

In any case, thank you for all useful and honest replies.

Hilsener til rike nord og deres folk. Godt nytt år! (Google Translate gjorde dette, ikke meg:)

6. januar 2011

Thank you for all the answers, advices and help.

@Aurstad: those foreign non-Norwegian speaking workers you are talking about: were probably hired in oil or IT industry?

6. januar 2011

Well thank you on such a nice and helpful reply Aurstad!

Hm, about skype: Inspired with your reply, I read something about their low prices, and I will probably order some of those. But I am still confused about that number you are talking about: I though that I get only a skype "username or account", not a phone number? Or am I wrong?

About "telling them you will work for anything they'll offer":

I thougth that Norway work regulations, have some kind of protection against exploitation of workers, when it comes to the values of the wages? For example, an architect can not get a salary lower than xxxx value. And that xxxx minimum is quite enough to cover all the humble and normal expenses and charges, of a single living person, right? So from a perspective of my inability to speak Norwegian, lack of valid Shengen papers, and over iron curtain wall education and experience - offering them this minimum xxxx value, will give me even at least some kind of chance of getting my future employer interested in an interview, if not getting a job? Or am I wrong about this too?

4. januar 2011

thank you for an advice Reg.

4. januar 2011

so I was told.

Hm, few months ago, a dutch friend of mine told this to one italian: "do not move to the netherlands the weather is shitty, we have a plenty of rain". But then the other dutch guy said: "do not worry about the rain, on the rain you grow"

I can say something similar on this:

"on the cold, you grow"

And about the expensiveness: well, your government probably did not do it on purposely. Higher prices keep the inflation out of the business. Higher taxes are due to free medical care and education.

I am not concerned about the expensiveness, as I do not intend to own a Ferrari or live in some of those Crabs villa's.

1. januar 2011

Thank you for all the answers.

Mr. Camlon, I can see you are a Kiwi. Sorry if I offended your south island's nature, by ranking it number 2, below Norway. But, hey you still have that norhern island of yours. They say it is a true paradise.

New Zealand may need architects, but still you have an imperial measuring system. This will be quite hard for me, as all the standards that I learned during studies were in metric system.

Takk for alle svar, og Godt Nytt År.

29. desember 2010

I appreciate your reply Caox. Maybe it is better to open a new topic, as moderators may consider further chit-chat on "finding a job" issue as on off-topic of this topic.

Yep, probably it is better like this:

https://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1285779&st=0#entry16692337

29. desember 2010

Hei. I was wondering if someone can give me a tip about what am I doing wrong, when it comes to finding an architect job position in Norway.

I have been sending a job vacant position offers for an architect, to Norwegian companies, well almost for last 10 months. And nothing, zip, nodda. I am constantly getting negative replies.

I am the first one that got a degree on my faculty, among 110 students in whole generation. I have around 12 months of working experience, out of which 2 at architectural company in Rotterdam (it was suppose to be 3 months, bud I had bad timing, their summer holidays started). I got a written official recognition of my degree from Nokut (Norwegian agency for recognition of foreign higher education), and it has been recognized as Master's degree (300 points, 5 years of studies). Besides regular architectural stuff, I also do some things that not many architects know how to do: light calculation (illuminance) structural analysis and design of construction (particulary masonry wall systems with its slabs, beams and foundations), and plumbing installations in buildings. Furthermore I have pretty good written references from my ex professors, my ex dean, boss from the Rotterdam...

Also I am ready to accept that minor (I believe it is 3 months?) contract, so that my potential principal will not be concerned about difficulties of getting me fired, if I do not suit his expectations. Not to mention that I have no intention of negotiating about the salary amount. Whatever they offer it will be enough.

Now, I am sure the problem is not within the technical stuff related to the way I write my CV, Portfolio or Cover letter (although I find this topic very helpful).

But there are some things that I am aware of: my biggest minuses are:

- I do not speak Norwegian. I started learning it, but it will probably take me years to gain an average speaking ability. The nearest Norwegian language school is 500km distanced from my place. I bought a dictionary, "Ny i Norge" book and audio cd, but still it's going pretty tough.

But this was not a problem on my internship in The Netherlands. Most of architects in the office were foreigners, not Dutch, so I guess the situation can be somewhat similar in Norway? Or am I wrong? I understand that I need language in every part of life, not only at my working place. But still why can't I use English, a year or two, until I learn Norwegian.

- My country (Serbia) is not a member of EU nor Shengen zone. This means my employee needs to do some paper work in order to provide me a work permit. I guess it is much easier for him to take Norwegian, Dane, or Polish architect, which already have a valid right to work.

- Address in my CV, and telephone number are Serbian. From the employees point of view, this automatically disqualifies me. I will try to put a Norwegian address and phone number (from a more of an acquaintance than friend of mine) into my CV. But again this is also very bad, as the potential employers will not get me on the phone, but him (my acquaintance) and even if they are still interested in me, and contact me on my Serbian number, I still need some time to fly over to Norway, which leads us to the following problem:

- Lack of funds. Prices of a room rent in Oslo are amazingly high. But what bothers me more, is that most of people are not willing to rent you any kind of room within 3 months period, or even if they are, then they ask for some kind of ID number (which I get from my employer), which I do not own, as I came only on an interview. Not to mention advance payment for room rent.

Also it is too expensive for me to call by telephone any company in Norway; this would be a great plus, if I could do that, as employers appreciate when ever a potential employee calls and informs himself about the position, advertisement dead line...

- I know that there was and partly still is an economical crisis going on in the world, but at least from the perspective of architecture and construction sector, it is going pretty well, at least in Oslo, despite the economical crisis. Or am I wrong?

In the end, despite all these minuses, I think I deserve some kind of chance. But it seems this is all going to end by moving not north, but east - leaving to UAE. Sadly, Norwegian Snøhetta and its projects had crucial influence on my decision to became an architect. My dream was to became part of their team one day, or at least to work in their home country.

If some cognate soul wishes to take a look at my Portfolio, here it is

Tusen takk for all the replies, and help on this fairytale story.

28. desember 2010

well, good people of Norway, thank you for clarifying this for me.

Some architectural companies both at nav.no and finn.no still use this term "sivil arkitekt" for their job vacant positions. I am glad that now, I know that I can apply to this positions.

Unfortunately I am not succeeding in finding any kind of job related to architecture in Norway. It seems this has something to do with my inability to speak Norwegian language (although I started learning it, but it takes a lot of time).

Thank you for all the replies.

28. desember 2010

Thank you for the reply iNeo.

So a person that graduates at AHO (Oslo school of Architecture) can not possibly have a "sivil arkitekt" degree? Only "arkitekt" degree?

How long does this "sivil arkitekt" studies last? Longer than regular 5 years?

The thing is, that I finished my faculty out of Norway. Norwegian Nokut recognized my degree, as an Architect Master degree. Now I do not know if I have the right to apply to job vacant positions of a "sivil arkitekts". I do not even know what do sivil arkitekts do, in comparison to regular arkitekts?

28. desember 2010

I was wondering if someone can tell me the difference between the "sivil arkitekt" and "arkitekt". What is a "sivil arkitekt" in Norway, or what does man with this particular profession do?

Thank you for all the help, and I am apologizing for writing in English.

Cheers

George.

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Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Difference between sivil arkitekt and arkitekt?

Too difficult to find a job as an architect foreigner in Norway?

Difference between sivil arkitekt and arkitekt?

Difference between sivil arkitekt and arkitekt?

Difference between sivil arkitekt and arkitekt?